Author Topic: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)  (Read 10974 times)

Offline elegy

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2007, 08:39:15 PM »
but the thing is, this breed is in SUCH a precarious position right now that the risk is not worth it. people who take pit bulls to dog parks are putting the entire breed at risk right now. they are putting my right to own these dogs at risk. their dog may not start crap, but the correct pit bull is very likely to end it, and where's the media attention going to be? on the pit bull. especially if somebody gets hurt trying to break it up.

and right now, pit bulls do not get second chances.

i can't tell you how many people i've known who have sworn up and down that their pit bulls were dog friendly and would never ever show aggression. and then they got to be round about that magical two year age mark, and things started to change and oh boy were they shocked that first time at the dog park when their pit bull was clearly ready to rumble.

there are a million and three other ways to exercise your pit bull. the risk is not worth it.


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« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 08:43:00 PM by elegy »

Offline RompStompnBoogie

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2007, 11:40:08 PM »
I absolutely agree that Pits can't afford any bad press.  I think that Pit Bull parents need to be extremely responsible (which includes socializing and training to the max) and very well educated on the breeds history and idiosyncrisies.  However, one of my dogs, a 2 year old neutered male AmStaff, would be and has been the first dog to take off like a bat out of hell at the first sign of confrontation.  If he was being attacked, yes he would defend himself, but he'd escape the second he had a chance.  I don't think anyone who doesn't thoroughly know their dog and what the dog is capable of has any business taking their dog to a park and risking the well-being of others or their animals.  This doesn't apply to just Pits.  Furthermore, if your dog isn't trained to the point where it could be called off if something were to happen, you also have no business being at a dog park, regardless of your dog's breed.  I don't take my dogs to dog parks, but I know that out my 5, I could confidently take 3 of them without a problem.  Overly dominant and less than tolerant dogs shouldn't be allowed.  Nor should possessive, territorial, abnormally anxious or overly rough-playing dogs.   

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2007, 06:58:46 AM »
Add me to the crowd that thinks people with Pits should not take them to the dog park.  It is so not worth the risk to the breeds reputation. 

I tell the owners that insist Fido will not hurt another dog (which I insist about my pit too, btw - she is almost 9 and very dog friendly) so it should be allowed to go to the dog park that IF a problem happens, even if it is not your dogs fault IT WILL BE your dogs fault.  Period.  No one is going to believe the fluffy labradoodle started it.  No one cares.

Responsible pit owners do not put their dogs in situations where problems might happen.


Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2007, 09:30:30 AM »
The pit owners in my city are responsible, and they still come to the dog park. Like a said, we are very close knit. The group of us often sit around discussing how angry we are at breed bans (including pits, GSDs, rots, etc). Not to mention, everyone watches their dog closely. ANY dog, including the most submissive non aggressive dog has the possibility to get into a fight. Tessa will never start a fight, but she sure as well finish one if someone goes after her. Should I never be allowed in the dog park? Despite the fact that everyone loves Tessa and gives her a hug and pets her after we enter? I agree, pits can not handle any more bad publicity. But they can also use all the good publicity they can get from those that are well behaved and show what a pit truly is and can be.

Offline RompStompnBoogie

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2007, 10:36:33 AM »
The pit owners in my city are responsible, and they still come to the dog park. Like a said, we are very close knit. The group of us often sit around discussing how angry we are at breed bans (including pits, GSDs, rots, etc). Not to mention, everyone watches their dog closely. ANY dog, including the most submissive non aggressive dog has the possibility to get into a fight. Tessa will never start a fight, but she sure as well finish one if someone goes after her. Should I never be allowed in the dog park? Despite the fact that everyone loves Tessa and gives her a hug and pets her after we enter? I agree, pits can not handle any more bad publicity. But they can also use all the good publicity they can get from those that are well behaved and show what a pit truly is and can be.

I agree!

Offline elegy

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 10:46:23 AM »
see, you're not getting it lin. yes, every dog has the possibility of getting in a fight. that's totally beside the point. your dog will not be at the center of a media circus fueling the outcry against the breed with more people rallying to have all these dogs killed. people want pit bulls dead. extinct. banned. forgotten. every time a pit bull gets into a scuffle, no matter how normal a scuffle that is for any dog who is a dog, it's another strike against the breed. look at denver where people were having their pit bulls confiscated and killed. look at ontario.

if the breed were not in crisis, then maybe (MAYBE) it would be different and i could accept certain pit bulls in dog parks. but this breed IS in crisis, and i think a lot of people don't realize how much.

if you want to give the breed good publicity, take them out on a leash in public places and show people how to be a responsible pit bull owner. by keeping your dog out of trouble. by not taking risks. 98% of the people who own this breed do not have any realistic idea of what they own. they think that because they love their dog and they socialized their dog and they don't fight their dog that they're going to "show the world". genetics don't always work that way.

we cannot afford people taking unnecessary risks.

Offline Maxxsgirl

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2007, 12:00:51 PM »
I agree with both points here.  I hate and would hate any legislation that is breed discriminatory in any way, including any local laws and such, including anything that bans certain breeds from dog parks.  There are pits that will never cause or engage in an issue just as there are ones that will, and the same goes for every other dog out there (regardless of genetic predisposition).  I love that there are "pit communities" that spend their time in dog parks, promoting how great and even-tempered their animals are.  I also get that on the off chance that something did happen, pit's fault or not, that it is more bad press.  I think that both sides are absolutely responsible in the positions that they hold.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2007, 02:57:37 PM »
I am getting it. Breed discrimination is not new. Pit bulls were not always discriminated against, as a pit owner/fan I'm sure you know their nickname as the nanny dog. In past years German Shepherds, dobies, rots, etc were discriminated against just as severely. Who knows who will be discriminated against next? I've been discriminated against myself for my breed. People walk to the other side of the sidewalk when I come down, I get the "don't pet that dog" comments when kids want to see my dog, and I've been turned down for apartments/houses because my dogs are on the "aggressive dog" ban list.

Offline taai

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2007, 06:39:34 PM »
i don't think the answer to breed discrimination is to not take pitbulls to dog-parks... the dogs will not be socialized without contact with other dogs nor will people be exposed to pits, nor realize that a pit is a dog just like every other dog. good behaved pits change the attitude of others-- i've seen it happen. 

as for the original question-- honestly, it doesn't sound like an extra dog is appropriate for your family right now as it doesn't sound like there will be enough time to train and socialize the animal. take care!

ps. yay, this is my first post here! 

Offline kim

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2007, 05:54:31 PM »
Lin - the difference is, you can own your dog across the nation without incident. elegy cannot take her dog to many towns and states, she cannot walk them without a muzzle in others, and in some areas she runs the risk of having her dog confiscated if she is even found TRAVELLING through the town. GSD's have never been in the status that pit bulls now have. Even in the 70s dobes never had this extreme status. GSDs in fact have had a priveledged spot because they continue to be seen in better lights because of "Rin Tin TIn" and other police k9's showing some good they do people - GSDs will never be discriminated against as much as pits.

Dogs do NOT NEED DOG PARKS for socialization. Dogs existed for decades without dog parks for socialization - and it is a POOR PLACE to socialize your dogs. Go to stores, go to training, set up play dates, go to CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS to socialize your dog.

And pit bulls can be good dogs and STILL not belong in dog parks - because dog aggression is BUILT INTO THE BREED. it is the same reason that in the next year, my male doberman will not be going back to dog parks - because as he matures, he is growing more intolerant of other dogs and THAT RISK does not belong in a dog park.
Pit bulls can be wonderful puts and well socialized and well trained and still not belong in a dog park because the chances are as they get older, they WILL be dog aggressive to some degree. They are a terrier!
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Offline Kati33

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2007, 11:40:02 PM »
Dogs do NOT NEED DOG PARKS for socialization. Dogs existed for decades without dog parks for socialization - and it is a POOR PLACE to socialize your dogs. Go to stores, go to training, set up play dates, go to CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS to socialize your dog.

I agree 100%. In a dog park you can't control what another dog does and you have no idea how an owner will react to their dog's bad behavior towards yours. My dogs get socialized with dogs I know, owners I know and trust to know their dog well enough to step in if things aren't completely positive. I don't want my new pup to have any negative experiences with other dogs at this point. So he ONLY gets to play with dogs owned by my agility training partners. My dogs will never go to a dog park, regardless of breed.
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Offline lissa4622

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2007, 02:20:40 AM »
I don't take my pit mix to the dog park anymore.  I have taken him once before and I didn't like how the other dogs were trying to play with him.  He gets tense when dogs jump on top of him.  He plays very well with dogs he knows, but I don't like him playing with strange dogs.  He has never fought with anyone before, but when I see him get tense, I know he isn't enjoying himself. 

After that experience, I don't think I'd take any breed of dog to a dog park.  You never know how the other dogs are going to behave or how their owners are going to act.  It just isn't worth the risk.

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2007, 09:18:42 AM »
Dogs do NOT NEED DOG PARKS for socialization. Dogs existed for decades without dog parks for socialization - and it is a POOR PLACE to socialize your dogs. Go to stores, go to training, set up play dates, go to CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS to socialize your dog.

And pit bulls can be good dogs and STILL not belong in dog parks - because dog aggression is BUILT INTO THE BREED. it is the same reason that in the next year, my male doberman will not be going back to dog parks - because as he matures, he is growing more intolerant of other dogs and THAT RISK does not belong in a dog park.
Pit bulls can be wonderful puts and well socialized and well trained and still not belong in a dog park because the chances are as they get older, they WILL be dog aggressive to some degree. They are a terrier!


VERY well said!!!


My pit girl has never been to a dog park and for sure does not lack for proper socialization.  Not even close.  She has regular play dates, she goes to obedience (yes, even at nine), she goes for on leash walks, and she attends many humane society sponsored events (where pets are welcome).  I will NEVER take her to a dog park.  It is not worth the risk.


Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2007, 10:50:55 AM »
When did someone say that a dog park is necessary for socialization? Without the dog park, I would not be able to give my dogs the exercise they need. The dog park has been a godsend since it opened. I also had no friends in this city until the dog park. Its socialization for ME, and play time/exercise for my dogs.

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2007, 04:08:54 PM »
When did someone say that a dog park is necessary for socialization? Without the dog park, I would not be able to give my dogs the exercise they need. The dog park has been a godsend since it opened. I also had no friends in this city until the dog park. Its socialization for ME, and play time/exercise for my dogs.

This post basically says that dog parks are necessary for socialization

i don't think the answer to breed discrimination is to not take pitbulls to dog-parks... the dogs will not be socialized without contact with other dogs nor will people be exposed to pits, nor realize that a pit is a dog just like every other dog. good behaved pits change the attitude of others-- i've seen it happen. 

as for the original question-- honestly, it doesn't sound like an extra dog is appropriate for your family right now as it doesn't sound like there will be enough time to train and socialize the animal. take care!

ps. yay, this is my first post here! 

Offline kim

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2007, 05:49:22 PM »
No offense Lin, but if the dog park is the only way your dogs can get the exercise they need, then maybe rethink having such large, active breeds, much less just getting a second? What happens if all of a sudden you cannot take them to the dog park?
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2007, 07:59:02 PM »
When did someone say that a dog park is necessary for socialization? Without the dog park, I would not be able to give my dogs the exercise they need. The dog park has been a godsend since it opened. I also had no friends in this city until the dog park. Its socialization for ME, and play time/exercise for my dogs.

This post basically says that dog parks are necessary for socialization
How on earth do you read a post that is specifically saying dog parks are not necessary for socialization as saying they are necessary for socialization?

Offline kim

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2007, 10:06:26 PM »
Lin, are you reading the post? The quote right underneath trub's sentence specifically states - "the dogs will not be socialized...". SHe isn't referring to YOUR post.
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Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2007, 07:14:12 AM »
This post basically says that dog parks are necessary for socialization

i don't think the answer to breed discrimination is to not take pitbulls to dog-parks... the dogs will not be socialized without contact with other dogs nor will people be exposed to pits, nor realize that a pit is a dog just like every other dog. good behaved pits change the attitude of others-- i've seen it happen. 

as for the original question-- honestly, it doesn't sound like an extra dog is appropriate for your family right now as it doesn't sound like there will be enough time to train and socialize the animal. take care!

ps. yay, this is my first post here! 

Yes, I quoted myself.
And thank you Kim, what Kim said.

~Lin you deleted the part of my post that was what I was referring to.  I quoted you to show what question I was answering and then I stated this here answers your question and then I quoted what answered your question.  Please read what was below what I wrote (in the quote above).



Offline taai

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2007, 05:51:21 AM »
i think we have a different definition of what "dog park" is. when i think of dog parks, i think of all the parks in my community where dogs are encouraged-- where we go to meet other dogs, hang out, run the trails, etc.

i think a dog park is a great place to deal with dog interaction. i do not think it is less controllable an environment than any other public area. i suppose you can only take your dogs to private places, so that they are never out in public. but when in public, you cannot always control the environment your dog is in, so if you wish for your dog to be out in the public, it is good to socialize with a variety of other dogs. i have a large breed, mastiff/shepherd cross. i am also grateful for the dog parks, and for the socialization the dog gets there. if there's an issue between dogs it can be dealt with there. yes, there is always the possibility of a fight, but the same possibility exists just walking down the street!

it's shocking to hear pit owners who believe that this breed has some sort of inherent dog aggression. i have been around a lot of pits/x's and owners my whole life. we treat them like every other dog. i have never seen anything unusual in my life with these dogs. usual dog stuff, but nothing that is out of the ordinary for any larger breed working dog. of course, i do not spend time with people who are not positive dog owners, and consequently, have animals who are out of control.

by your reasoning, if the dogs are more dog aggressive than others (aggression bred right into them), why do you own them then? if the dogs are so dangerous to other dogs, they definitely SHOULD be outlawed. (i don't actually believe this.) don't you see how this attitude plays right into the hands of people who would stigmatize and discriminate against a breed? this time it's pits (and in ontario any breed with "pit like features")-- it will be other breeds in the future. i don't think we should ever give in to that sort of breed discrimination... each dog is a unique being with his or her own characteristics, and each dog deserves our positive regard. 

and another thing, why would you ever allow your dog to get to a point where you cannot bring him or her where other dogs are? would it not be better to use those times to teach your dog about being around unknown dogs?  what if you were at a family picnic with other dogs, some of whom you didn't know that well? would you leave your dog at home or in the car? my dog is my shadow. he goes everywhere with me. we are often in situations with unknown dogs. i can only imagine how different a dog he would've been if i had treated him as if he were dangerous to other dogs just because when he came of age he was dominant and cocky. i always assume the best of my dogs. he was trained out of that stage.

my dog is trained to sit down in a fight. if another dog comes at him, and i tell him to sit, he sits. if playing gets out of control, i make him sit. he trusts me to deal with the other dog. it is clear who is the wrong when that happens. training, training, training. i would rather bust my ass training my dog to have a dog who can go anywhere. i have never had a problem with my dog, eventho he can play rough and is quite boisterous. i can also calm him in a moment. that's just good training. even today, he was running and playing with a little shitzu and she actually started biting HIM. i walked into the middle and said, "sit. now." my dog sat down and i told the little shitzu to go home. the owner of shitzu said, "oh, i'm so sorry..." our interactions are always like this... well, usually, just lots of good playing.

sometimes i meet people on the trails who have these dogs... they are on leads, wearing muzzles. the owners say, "the dog's aggressive, keep your dog away." so my dog heels and we walk past. i just wonder if they had just let their dog learn, not been afraid to step in and use training even at the scary times, if that dog would be wearing a muzzle... 

i just don't understand where the other camp is coming from on this issue-- not bring a dog to a park because of its breed. sighs. 

so, that's where i'm coming from, sorry if i offend, it is not my intention. i just find the hysteria and discrimination about pitbulls/x-crosses tiring. that's what really riles me.

btw, the reason dog parks didn't exist before was because people just let their dogs run around, and there weren't all these bylaws about leashing and etc. there was less population density. where i live, it is still not uncommon for people to put their dogs "out" in the morning or early afternoon in the country.     

peace.   

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2007, 07:39:24 AM »
i think we have a different definition of what "dog park" is. when i think of dog parks, i think of all the parks in my community where dogs are encouraged-- where we go to meet other dogs, hang out, run the trails, etc.


Well this is where you start being a little confused.

A dog park is just that, a park for dogs.  Not a park that you are allowed to take your dog to.  Dog parks are normally a very large fenced area where dogs are let off leash to run and play with any number of other dogs.  It can be a VERY large group of dogs. 

I frequently take my dogs to the park, on leash, for romps and such.  Not being willing to subject your dog to a dog park is in no way related to an unwillingness to take your dog places.  Not even close.  My pit girl has basically been just about every where with me - from horse shows to my honeymoon.   She came with.  Always on a leash when out and about.  So, just because I do not do dog parks does not mean my dog does not get out and about with other dogs and people. 

In my dog play group my pit is the dog who gets to introduce any new (known, not stranger) dogs into the group.  She plays the most fairly, etc.  It is not like the dog park because all the dogs and owners are known by each other and the supervision is there,etc.

i am also grateful for the dog parks, and for the socialization the dog gets there. if there's an issue between dogs it can be dealt with there. yes, there is always the possibility of a fight, but the same possibility exists just walking down the street!
   

 :doh:
How is the possibility the same for a fight to start walking down the street as it is in an uncontrolled group of unknown dogs in a large open area where the owners have no control over the dogs?

My dogs walk on leashes.  (BTW, I have three large dogs, a Pit, a Rottie, and a Greyhound) It is rude to walk your dog without a leash.  The only possibility for a fight is if some loose dog attacks us.  (and I must say, when this has happened I have been able to get my dogs out of the situation easily because they are well trained and ON a leash.)


it's shocking to hear pit owners who believe that this breed has some sort of inherent dog aggression. i have been around a lot of pits/x's and owners my whole life. we treat them like every other dog. i have never seen anything unusual in my life with these dogs. usual dog stuff, but nothing that is out of the ordinary for any larger breed working dog. of course, i do not spend time with people who are not positive dog owners, and consequently, have animals who are out of control.
   

Any dog owner who is not willing to admit that any dog breed has certain inherent characteristics has their head in the sand.  Do you believe that border collies do not have something in them that makes them want to herd things?  Do you believe that retrievers do not have something in them that makes them want to retrieve things? 

If you are willing to believe other breeds have things that they are by their nature going to do, why is it so hard for you to believe that a pit bull has a propensity to be dog aggressive?

Do you know what the breed was originally developed for?  Do you know the breeds history?  It is obvious you do not.

And a real pit owner is willing to be honest about their dogs breed.  Not being willing to admit this only puts their dog at risk.  Puts the whole breed at risk.  Living with your head in the sand does not make the retriever not retrieve and the sheep dog not herd.

by your reasoning, if the dogs are more dog aggressive than others (aggression bred right into them), why do you own them then?   

Why?  Well the short (and  :heart: ) reason is because it is my favorite breed.  I have always admired them.  They are beautiful and majestic and proud and a moosh all at the same time.  A loyal companion. 

Why do people who live in apartments or in suburban housing tracks own retrievers?  They certainly do not need a dog that chases after the things now do they?

Being aware of a dogs natural instincts makes teaching the dog much easier.  The pit girlie I had before the one I have now was a rescue (as in taken from a drug house rescue, not from a rescue) who had not seen the outside of an attic at the age of 4 months.  Her body was covered with urine burns and various scars.  She shared her attic with many other dogs of all ages.  Though humans were her world, she did not like dogs.  Was this a problem?  No, because I knew it.  She too went every where with me.  On a leash.  I never had a problem with her.  If someone was stupid enough to ignore my 'please do not let your dog get in her face, she does not like other dogs' request she would growl and look to me for direction.  I would remove her from the situation.

I miss how you feel this is a big deal?  There are lots of people who do not like other people, should we just get rid of all hot tempered red heads? (sorry to any of the not hot tempered red heads, just make a very broad statement)  Or maybe we should outlaw jerky bosses? 

Just because my dog did not like other dogs (with a few exceptions btw, and she did like cats, and people were just the bestest thing ever) is no reason for her to not exist. 

I will say that I have met and dealt with a few pits that were so dog aggressive that it ruled their life.  They were always in a state of frustration and alert.  They were always wanting to put any dog it saw in its place.  These are bad pits.  These dogs were PTS for their own well being.  It is no life being that frustrated all the time.


Edit because I can not spell
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 07:49:40 AM by trubandloki »

Offline trubandloki

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2007, 07:43:39 AM »
(I was too wordy, had to cut it in half  ::) )

and another thing, why would you ever allow your dog to get to a point where you cannot bring him or her where other dogs are? would it not be better to use those times to teach your dog about being around unknown dogs?     

And how would you do this at a dog park?  Where all the dogs are running loose in a large open area.  It would be impossible I do believe.

You teach your dog to interact with strange dogs in controlled situations.  Like dog obedience classes or play dates with friends.  Not in a dog park.

Let me remind you that even if the pit is not the cause of the fight, or even participates in the fight at a dog park, it will be the fault of the pit.  That is how society is.  You are not going to change that.  Why put the dog and the breeds reputation in a dangerous situation?

my dog is trained to sit down in a fight. if another dog comes at him, and i tell him to sit, he sits. if playing gets out of control, i make him sit. he trusts me to deal with the other dog. it is clear who is the wrong when that happens. training, training, training. i would rather bust my ass training my dog to have a dog who can go anywhere. i have never had a problem with my dog, eventho he can play rough and is quite boisterous. i can also calm him in a moment. that's just good training. even today, he was running and playing with a little shitzu and she actually started biting HIM. i walked into the middle and said, "sit. now." my dog sat down and i told the little shitzu to go home. the owner of shitzu said, "oh, i'm so sorry..." our interactions are always like this... well, usually, just lots of good playing.

I totally agree that all dogs should be trained!
I help teach dog obedience so it would be kind of crazy of me to not feel this way.


As I stated above, pits do not get a fair shake though, so it is not worth the risk to put them in that situation.
A story.  My girl was at the barn with me.  I was on my horse, she was tied to the tree I always tied her to (with the permission of the barn owner) while I rode.  She was fast asleep under the horse trailer that was parked next to the tree.  Flat on her side.  (probably even snoring)  Someone who owns a very less than socialized corgi who does not believe in leashes showed up.  They let their dog loose (like always, to bite whatever it felt like biting).  On this day, it was my dog.  Many people saw it (me included as I had stopped to ask someone a question).  My dog was sleeping, this dog came charging across the parking lot and bit her in the leg.  My dog screamed, corgi ran away.  Over.  Well you would think it was over.  But no.  For MONTHS (over a year) I would hear from people how my horrible mean nasty pit bull attacked the poor corgi dog.  It did not matter how many times I told the story of what really happened and other confirmed it.   People wanted to blame the mean nasty pit bull (who still has a scar from that bite).

sometimes i meet people on the trails who have these dogs... they are on leads, wearing muzzles. the owners say, "the dog's aggressive, keep your dog away." so my dog heels and we walk past. i just wonder if they had just let their dog learn, not been afraid to step in and use training even at the scary times, if that dog would be wearing a muzzle... 
   

I would guess their dogs are wearing a gentle leader or halti head collar not a muzzle for starters.  Very few people have dogs that they would bother to take to the park in a muzzle.  Gentle leaders and such are NOT a muzzle, they are a collar.  Think how horses are lead around, by their heads.  It works with dogs too.

All people are not nice either.  Like I said above.  Why is it that you seem to think that every dog has to like every dog when every person does not like every person?  I see nothing wrong with some dogs not liking other dogs, etc.  It would be highly unfair of me to expect all dogs to like each other.  I most certainly know many people I will not say I even slightly like. 

And maybe those people just got that dog, a dog that did not have any proper training or socialization when it was younger and they are doing the best they can to turn it around.  You snearing at them and looking down on their efforts will not help the issue.

i just don't understand where the other camp is coming from on this issue-- not bring a dog to a park because of its breed. sighs. 


For starters, no one said to not take dogs to the park, they said not to take them to the dog park.  HUGE difference.

And it is called being a responsible pet owner.  A knowledgeable responsible pet owner.  A pet owner that cares about the reputation of their favorite breed above their desire to pretend the truth is not there.

btw, the reason dog parks didn't exist before was because people just let their dogs run around, and there weren't all these bylaws about leashing and etc. there was less population density. where i live, it is still not uncommon for people to put their dogs "out" in the morning or early afternoon in the country.     
   

Letting ones dog run loose is irresponsible and rude!  If I wanted your dog in my yard I would have bought/adopted your dog.  I want my dog to be able to use my yard without the disturbance of your dog. 


Offline TEK

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2007, 08:52:33 AM »
Yes.....exactly what trubandloki said.  ;)
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Offline taai

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2007, 05:58:21 PM »
by that definition, we do not have dog parks here! we just have lots of parks where dogs run around playing, none of which are fenced or anything of the sort. some of them have signs warning people that there are dogs off-leash in the area. there are some places, like playing fields, where dogs aren't allowed, because they ruin the grass.  other than that, i guess i live in a pretty dog friendly town.

i will run into groups of dogs at many places-- such as at concerts/events at the park, family and work bbq's, in the woods and at the beach, at the coffee shop on the patio (usually at least half a dozen dogs in an afternoon during the summer)... i just cannot have a dog that can't cope with unknown dogs running around, unless i leave my dog at home. 

Quote
And how would you do this at a dog park?  Where all the dogs are running loose in a large open area.  It would be impossible I do believe.

it's not impossible. the dog should never be out of your control, even off leash. if a dog is not able to come, heel, and sit off leash, it needs more training! i never feel that my dog is out of my control. i have had some fosters that needed to be trained before they could go out in public, but they train up, generally, within 6 weeks or so. but it does take letting them have them freedom, to teach them the skills necessary.

i am always watching my dog at the park. if he misbehaves, he is put on his leash and made to sit. i cannot say the last time this has happened, because he's not a pup anymore, and listens very well. generally, people at the park have excellent control over their dogs. we talk, the dogs romp, and if things get a little rough, everyone steps in to control their dogs. dogs will play hard sometimes. but there is a difference between romping and out-and-out fighting. i guess some people cannot tell the difference, because they don't let their dogs play. so i suppose those people would find a bunch of dogs running and jumping on each other overwhelming. but to me, that's what i've always seen groups of dogs do.

if i can see my dog, i can control him. and he is never out of my sight, unless we are seriously deep in the bush.   

and no, i was talking about that dog being muzzled. i know the different. i meant a muzzle. i don't so much snear, as feel sorry for the dog in the muzzle. don't believe that muzzles make for good dogs.

my family runs a large kennel and a breeding facility for access dogs (dogs for the disabled). the dogs are shipped all over this country once trained. all breeds are used for access dogs, if they show the qualities necessary. i was taught to assess a dog based on its individual temperament. a dog is a dog is a dog. to get to know what kind of dog a dog is you must get to know the dog. making assessments based on the history of the breed can be misleading. look how many people assume that toy dogs or labs are going to be good pets with children, only to find one has ripped the face off a toddler (this happens more than it should around here)... so this is where i'm coming from. some of the best access dogs are dobermans. who would've thought it... since their reputation is otherwise.

i have actually never experienced "dog parks" so i cannot appreciate what you have been through at them. it sounds like there's a lot of uptight people around where you live. that sucks. i think everyone needs to relax!! i'm sorry some irresponsible person let their dog attack yours.

i was walking the trail the other day, and this jack russell ran up and attacked my dog! but the owners gave the dog hell-- not my scary looking dog, who sat immediately. i suppose that the hate-on for large breed "bully dogs" will come here eventually, but it's not here yet, and i am damned if i'm going to change any of my behaviour because of the prejudice of others. i don't think that's irresponsible. 

i can hear where you are coming from, and appreciate your points. imo, we're really having a debate about the age-old argument of nature vs. nurture...
 

Offline Kati33

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Re: Raising your Pit Bulls! (A question.)
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2007, 11:17:44 PM »
Oh, trust me, my dogs can play rough- with dogs they know and people I know. For example- on a cattle dog list I am on one lady posted that she had her dog playing with the neighbors dog. Her cattle dog felt the neighbors dog (I think it actually was a pit puppy) was being rude, and told him so. The neighbors were upset and tried to break the dogs apart while their pits ear was being torn open and bleeding. The cattle dog owner saw nothing wrong in it was going to let her dog "teach" the other one a lesson. I can't deal with things like that. The dogs I let my dogs socialize with have very similar views on what is acceptable play and what isn't. I would *never* let my dog teach another one manners as I don't want him to think he needs to take things like that into his own hands. I want to be the one he looks to to step in and handle the situation. Unless I know the dog and its owner, my dogs don't get to do more than a quick sniff. This doesn't mean they are unsocialized or not know how to play- it is me controlling their environment to protect them. My dogs don't get to play with strangers- end of story- dog park or otherwise.
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