Author Topic: 10% baytril online?  (Read 3925 times)

Offline FrauleinAsh

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10% baytril online?
« on: March 29, 2007, 08:58:29 PM »
My breeder gave me the link to Debbie Duccomun's "Rat Report" where she reccomends a supplier of Baytril for ridiculously cheap prices for ppl (like me) who have many rats to care for. Apparently the stuff is normally for pigeons but is used to treat MYCO and is essentially the same as Baytril. HOWEVER, in her report she says this is Baytril 10%, what does that mean? Does that mean that I have to give each rat 9 times the reccomended dose for them to get the right amount?

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Offline Lise

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 09:02:40 PM »
That is the concentration of the drug.

% = g/100ml  That means there is 10 grams/100ml of drug.  = 100mg/ml (Very potent!)

Usually if you get compounded baytril it is approximately 25mg/ml.  So you would be giving only 1/4 or 1/2 of the normal dose depending on the concentration your vet usually prescribes.

***Edited to say that I think my math is correct, but like anything do research for yourself.  Don't trust people on message boards, including me! LOL
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 09:05:08 PM by Lise »
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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 09:05:29 PM »
Baytril alone probably won't take care of myco flare-ups... it might subside the infection, but another antibiotic is generally needed to get the full effect... according to my reading on Baytril/Myco... probably even on ratguide.com somewhere!
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Offline Popcorn

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 09:32:47 PM »
If you want something to keep on hand in case of emergency try this:

http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=165_213&products_id=489

Except I would give them their 3 drops directly, not in their water.
Adding medication to water is too unreliable - you can't depend on the dose they will get.




(Edited to put in correct link.)
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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 11:04:43 PM »
If you want something to keep on hand in case of emergency try this:

http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=165_213&products_id=489

Except I would give them their 3 drops directly, not in their water.
Adding medication to water is too unreliable - you can't depend on the dose they will get.




(Edited to put in correct link.)


The water acts as a diluting agent.  By giving them the drops directly, you are giving too large a dose too quickly... if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention that medications should be given where doses are determined by weight.  It's best just to go to the vet and get proper information.

Quote
Rodents: 0.15mL (3 drops) per 100mL of drinking water. Treat daily for seven days. Change water daily and keep out of direct sunlight.
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Offline FrauleinAsh

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2007, 07:35:55 AM »
Yeah, I was really trying to avoid an uncomfortable phone call to my vet if at all possible, but its starting to look inevitable. I just dont want her to be offended that I went elsewhere for my meds, ya know? But I really wouldnt even know where to begin to look for information like this, other than here or rat guide. I suppose I'll try that, thanks for everything guys  :thumbsup2:

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Offline Suebee

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2007, 08:47:58 AM »
Baytril is a medication that REQUIRES a prescription from a vet. Period.

It was not mentioned whether or not this particular place requires one, but I would not be surprised if they did.

Please find out if this place requires a prescription... if they do not, I cannot legally allow discussion of potentially illegal activity on our forum.

Thank you.

Offline FrauleinAsh

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 01:04:05 PM »
Id also like to add that I've never been given more than just plain ol baytril for my sick fuzzbutts, is this odd? Do u think my vets are not well informed because of this? It's always taken care of the issue, all but one time.

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Offline FrauleinAsh

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 01:09:50 PM »
Baytril is a medication that REQUIRES a prescription from a vet. Period.

It was not mentioned whether or not this particular place requires one, but I would not be surprised if they did.

Please find out if this place requires a prescription... if they do not, I cannot legally allow discussion of potentially illegal activity on our forum.

Thank you.

I really doubt that that Debbie D., the "mesiah of all things rat related" would lead any of us to a potentially harmful/dangerous situation, but I understand your concern.

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Offline FrauleinAsh

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2007, 01:20:43 PM »
% = g/100ml  That means there is 10 grams/100ml of drug.  = 100mg/ml (Very potent!)

Wow, you think 10% is potent? I just read somewhere else on this forum that someone has *20%* baytril!! That stuff must be like *fire*! :blob8:

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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 02:17:00 PM »
Id also like to add that I've never been given more than just plain ol baytril for my sick fuzzbutts, is this odd? Do u think my vets are not well informed because of this? It's always taken care of the issue, all but one time.

My vet usually just gives Baytril as well.  However, for serious myco flare-ups, Baytril is said to treat it, but upon stopping, the illness will come right back, therefore adding another med, like doxy, at the same time is a good idea... and usually takes care of it even after the course is finished.
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Offline kaycejonesgrl

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 08:17:14 PM »
The place that Debbie says carries Enroxil(generic baytril for birds, not sure if that is why it doesn't need a perscription?) doesn't carry it online. (Not sure if they do over the phone?) This place http://www.allbirdproducts.com/newproductpages/enroxil.html
does though. I dont think they require any perscription either as I went all the way up to paying for it in checkout (not going to actually get it just yet.) and there wasn't anything about a perscription...

Suebee, if it possible that this brand, since it's generic, is available without a perscription?

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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 08:56:50 PM »


Suebee, if it possible that this brand, since it's generic, is available without a perscription?



Are generic narcotics available without a prescription?  If one form requires a prescription, the others will/should also.
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Offline Lise

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 09:01:26 PM »
The reason its available without a prescription is because it is for birds.  For some reason, pigeon people don't need prescriptions for their medication.  I don't know why, and if someone knows the explanation to that I'd love to know.  Unfortunately they don't check and make sure you actually own birds.

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Offline kaycejonesgrl

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2007, 09:21:45 PM »
Is Baytril a narcotic? Is it used for illegal substances? I didnt know that.. ???

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Offline DolciLady

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2007, 09:31:32 PM »
Baytril/enrofloxacin  is an antibiotic.
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Offline FrauleinAsh

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2007, 10:14:12 PM »
Is Baytril a narcotic? Is it used for illegal substances? I didnt know that.. ???



No, not a controlled substance ... but that doesnt neccessarily mean it cant be harmful when used improperly, which is why most medicines need prescriptions. Sometimes a person really *means well* and they think they are knowledgable abt a certain disease or medicine, but there is just soooo much to know abt biology and pharmacology that it's really best to ask a vet.

On another note, I was wondering how these medicines could be aquired online if it was illegal? I've never heard that buying pet meds online was illegal, even if they dont ask for a faxed prescription. I would *think* that if it really is illegal that the buyer wouldnt be the one responsible for it (not that I'm saying this makes it ok or anything).

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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2007, 12:52:04 AM »
Is Baytril a narcotic? Is it used for illegal substances? I didnt know that.. ???



It was an example.  Sorry for the mix-up!
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Offline a1issa

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2007, 05:09:18 PM »
I just ordered some Enroxil & doxycycline from Jedd's Pigeon's, no problem.   No questions asked.

So now I'm also in the process of calculating dosage, and I saw this in Debbie D's article:
Quote
enrofloxacin (Baytril)óCan be very effective against Mycoplasma. Good for skin, intestinal, and urinary infections. Best not to use in growing animals (might stunt growth). Can be used long term.  Dose: 10 mg/lb BID orally or SQ.  For the 10% liquid the dose is 0.1 ml/lb BID.  Injections can cause skin ulcers. The injectable liquid, the 10% oral liquid, or ground tablets can be mixed with soy baby formula or Ensure and given orally. Tastes bad.

So, 0.1mg/lb is the dosage for 10% Enroxil.  Since I know my rat's weights in grams, I need to convert grams to pounds.  400g = .88lbs, so my rat's dose would be .088mg.  However, flavoring needs to be added, because it tastes so gross.  Using a multiple of 10 to add the flavoring will make your calculations much easier.

(edited for typo)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 07:37:11 PM by a1issa »
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Offline ratlets

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2007, 05:19:22 PM »
Or you could just mix the unflavored dose into some baby food, etc.

I prefer to get my Baytril from my vet.  It's not expensive.
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Offline Lise

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2007, 05:22:04 PM »
Take your rat to the vet!

You shouldn't decide by yourself when to medicate, not to mention dosages.  Not every problem requires the same dosages.

I honestly wish Debbie D wouldn't have posted those links.... I find it ridiculous that she advocates people self-medicating their rats -- or at least easily giving them the tools to do so.
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Offline a1issa

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2007, 06:57:52 PM »
Yep, free exchange of information is definitely a terrible thing.  It's why we have terrorism, school shootings, and... democracy.  And if Debbie D. hadn't written her article, it would never cross the resourceful person's mind to google "generic baytril," "10% baytril dosage," and "medication dosage calculation." 

$53.50 was my last Baytril bill, for 2 weeks supply.  For that price, I can buy it myself.  They also mixed up all of the rat's dosages, and gave me an inadequate amount so I had to go back, point out their mistake, and get another bottle for yet more money.

So when the vet says, "Your rat's lungs are permanently damaged due to pneumonia, so she will need to be on baytril & doxy for the rest of her life to fight mycoplasma," do you spend all of your rat health fund on the vet's overpriced baytril & doxy?  No, you find a cheaper source, so that when another rat gets a tumor, has an infection, etc. you can afford to give them the health care they deserve.



 
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Offline Lise

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2007, 07:16:08 PM »
Alissa, then why aren't you using your vets dosages?

The dosage you posted is Debbie D's aggressive treatment dose.... not a maintenance dose!!

That dosage works out to 22mg/kg if I did my math properly.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 07:19:00 PM by Lise »
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Offline CrazyBird

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2007, 07:20:43 PM »
It is very common for breeders to use baytril (or the generic equivalent) for their baby birds. Some use it as preventative when/if the baby developes cropstasis. A swab on the inside of the beak before a handfeeding is all they need. Probably the reason a prescription isn't required.

Higher doses can be used in birds, but this is the most common usage of Baytril that I've come across in the "bird world".

And maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am all for self-vetting WHEN it is appropriate. Obviously a pet owner is not able to perform surgery or do blood workups on their own pets. But nobody knows an animal better than their owner. I alone have diagnosed, and treated, my insulinomatic, adrenal diseased ferret for nearly 8 months. All I needed was a script from my vet for the meds I requested, per MY diagnosis. My vet had her dead in a month. I INSISTED, though she fought me on it, that I get her on prednisone right away. 8 months later she acts like a kid again. Clearly I was right, she was wrong. Research, research, research is all I can say. Vets know their stuff. Sometimes. But sometimes, if I may be so bold, I know more. :wink5:

And though I know little to nothing about rats, when I am as comfortable with them as I am with my birds and ferret, and when I know as much about them as I do birds, I would definitely be taking MY own ideas into consideration during times of illness.
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Offline a1issa

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Re: 10% baytril online?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2007, 07:45:10 PM »
Alissa, then why aren't you using your vets dosages?

The dosage you posted is Debbie D's aggressive treatment dose.... not a maintenance dose!!

That dosage works out to 22mg/kg if I did my math properly.

My vet's doses were heavily mixed with flavoring, so I don't know exactly what concentration was used.  However, they would probably tell me if I called and asked.  I do realize that Debbie D's dose is very aggressive, and that dose is inappropriate as a maintenance dose.  I posted that calculation for the sake of answering the question the original poster asked, and I have not worked out the appropriate dose for my rat as of yet.
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