Author Topic: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08  (Read 33228 times)

Offline OldsGal

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Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« on: January 05, 2008, 12:55:10 PM »
So we inherited a Mini Schnauzer when my MIL passed away.  The dog is in very bad shape.  Most of her teeth are rotten and she stinks terribly.  My MIL was not a well off woman so she couldn't afford to have her teeth cleaned and would groom her at home on her own.

In any event Minnie has an appointment with the vet for her teeth next Friday and after she heals from that I am going to have her groomed.  I personally don't like the look of the extra fur around the face such as the beard and eye brows.  I was thinking of having her completely shaved.  Would that be mean?  Is there a reason that the Schnauzer cut is necessary?  Do they need the beard for anything?  What do you think?

Staci
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 10:09:05 PM by OldsGal »
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Offline rapforjane

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 01:22:51 PM »
It's not cruel to shave a schnauzer, their clips don't really serve a purpose. Their hair doesn't really provide a lot of warmth on their legs and underbelly, either, so it won't keep it warm. If you don't like the hair, I say shave it down. There's little to no maintenance on a shaved dog.  :)

Offline ratsofatso

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 01:26:32 PM »
I think as far as the beard goes it's not exactly necessary, I may be wrong but my sister works at the vet so a complete shave wouldn't be a bad idea. You will just have to give her an occasional haircut. I think the only neccesity of the Schnauzer cut is maybe for showing. :-\ But I would definately get the teeth done, a brushing of the teeth may be necessary at least once a week. I wouldn't get the grooming place to do her every time she needs a haircut as it can cost a lot of extra money.  :)

Offline tsk_n_such

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 02:13:47 PM »
For a show dog, you'd want to strip the coat, not shave it. But, for a pet, there's no harm at all in having the coat clipped down. In fact, that's what many, if not most, pet schnauzer owners do. Keeping the hair around the mouth (the 'beard' if you will) is really a personal choice. They don't need it for anything. I've known several elderly schnauzers who sported a shorter clip around the face in their later days, for ease of cleaning.

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Offline ratzluver

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 04:16:16 PM »
It is not cruel to shave a dog! My grandma used to do it all the time with her Schnauzer. :thumbsup2:
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Offline JR1030

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2008, 08:57:52 PM »
I'm sorry, I have no advice.  I just like the phrase "shave a schnauzer".  :yelcutelaugh:
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Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2008, 09:07:22 PM »
I'm sorry, I have no advice.  I just like the phrase "shave a schnauzer".  :yelcutelaugh:

Um now that I read it again it almost doesn't sound very G rated  LOL

I will take before and after photos and post them for you all to see.

Staci
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Offline Ratwings

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 09:57:41 PM »
Definitely not cruel! In fact you will be doing her a favor; imagine being coated in smelly, knotted scraggly hair. She doesn't know what she's "supposed" to look like, so even if she might look a little bald and silly at first to human eyes, she won't care and she'll probably feel great. If it's cold where you live, you might want to get her a sweater or something because she may need to adjust to the lack of furry insulation at first.
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Offline ScoutGotBig

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2008, 09:44:36 AM »
Hi Staci :)  You can body clip a Schnauzer also without any problems.  Do you have a groomer yet?  You'll want to let the groomer know what you want clipped, otherwise you'll likely have Minnie come back with a schnauzer clip. 

She may want a coat afterwards since it's so nice and warm here in the winter :)
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 02:45:30 AM »
I wanted to point out sometimes it IS cruel to shave a dog. Such as the german shepherd. The undercoat keeps them warm in winter, and cool in summer. Some people have actually shaved their shepherds in summer, which leads to them being hotter and unprotected against sun burns. In addition, often the coat NEVER grows back the same.

Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 08:55:01 AM »
Thanks Lin for that input.  I guess that is what I was trying to find out with the Schnauzer.  I knew that with some dogs their coats had a purpose and I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be screwing something up by clipping this dog.  Still has not happened yet.  She had her teeth worked on Last friday.  They had to pull 11 teeth and want her to come back in 6 months to have it done again as they just took the really loose teeth this time and said that she has more teeth that have exposed roots that will need to come out later.  This poor dog.  So I am giving her mouth time to heal and will probably have her done this coming weekend.  I am going to try to remember to do before and after pics so you can see.

Staci
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Offline Dearpie

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 08:23:41 PM »
I wanted to point out sometimes it IS cruel to shave a dog. Such as the german shepherd. The undercoat keeps them warm in winter, and cool in summer. Some people have actually shaved their shepherds in summer, which leads to them being hotter and unprotected against sun burns. In addition, often the coat NEVER grows back the same.

But this isn't about a german shepherd.  A schnauzer already has the very short hair except for around it's face and arms.

Offline Speed Ratster

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 08:36:22 PM »
No, it's not cruel at all.  You didn't mention if the dog had any skin conditions or other ailments in addition to its bad dentition, but giving him a short shave and a nice bath would probably benefit him greatly.  Dogs aren't supposed to have their whiskers shaven off, but I've seen plenty that have and don't seem to miss them at all (after all, they're not cats).  I prefer breeds without beards (I'm not fond of the wet drooly hair), so if I had a schnauzer I'd probably shave him all the way too.

By the way, Border Collies are usually not breeds that get a clip as part of their grooming, but in the summer months I shave my Border Collie down very short.  Actually, I shave her Schnauzer-short! 

I actually think it's insensitive to let long-haired breeds pant and be miserable in the heat.  I know a person who has a collie that is horribly overweight and they barely bathe/brush him much less anything else.  You should see this poor dog pant due to his huge thick coat of tangles.  Poor thing.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2008, 09:58:10 PM »
Did I say it was about a german shepherd? I was stating the fact because of statement in general that its not cruel to shave a dog. The GSD is not the only breed that cannot be shaved, as I stated in my post sometimes it IS cruel to shave a dog.

Offline ScoutGotBig

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 10:21:42 AM »
I've shaved a Keeshond, one of the breeds that are not to be shaved - and we clip our Collie/Pyr/Shep/Lab mix every summer - ruins his coat, so what - he's a PET and he's a MUTT.  The skin protection matters primarily for outside dogs - and Scout's a pet who isn't concerned if his hair cut is in style or if his coat will grow back nicely.  We've also done a full body clip on our Cocker.

An indoor pet dog can generally be clipped as a person desires because if they are inside, they aren't exposed to the 100 degree heat or the sub zero chills.

And either way - on a severely matted coat, some dogs even if they are supposed to not be shaved, you have to clip the coat.  The mats don't do anything to benefit a dog.
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Offline critterchic

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2008, 08:53:54 PM »
I had a schnauzer for 17 years, they are geat dogs. Glad you got her teeth done, 11 out, wow. As for the haircut, that is of course personal choice, however "schnauzer" means bearded dog in german, where schnauzer's originally came from. As a pet the schnauzer can be groomed in many variations of the standard clip, as for shaving well if it's matted and there's no other choice it would be more cruel to leave it in that condition than to shave it. Just keep in mind that you can get a short haircut, the same lenth all over without shaving and the dog looks really cute, like a teddybear clip. When my schnauzer got older I did this instead of the standard schnauzer clip because she hated the brush but I still wanted her to look cute and feel cute.
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Offline fearlessella

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 10:41:26 PM »
I wanted to point out sometimes it IS cruel to shave a dog. Such as the german shepherd. The undercoat keeps them warm in winter, and cool in summer. Some people have actually shaved their shepherds in summer, which leads to them being hotter and unprotected against sun burns. In addition, often the coat NEVER grows back the same.

My shepherds coat grows back so much better every year!  It's very thick & shiny.
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Offline ~Lin

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2008, 08:21:07 AM »
Why are you shaving a shepherd every year?! If you're shaving in the summer because of the heat, you are doing the opposite and leaving the dog defenseless to the heat and sun. The undercoat insulates them and keeps them cooler. Shaving leaves them vulnerable to overheating, and sunburn.

Offline fearlessella

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2008, 10:38:16 PM »
First of all I just want to state that I don't want to start an argument.  I am just stating a few things about my shepherd.  I started shaving Kobe about 3 years ago now, only when it starts to get warm & through the summer.  I think he is so much happier.  He does not have this huge, heavy coat weighing him down.  I understand your concern about sunburn, but in the 3 years I have shaved him I haven't seen a problem with his skin.  If anything I can see it better, so I can treat a problem.









I just bathed him a few weeks ago & his his hair is so thick & shiny.  Occasionally I have worried about it not growing back because I have seen a chow mix once that had other problems with her skin & after she was shaved she never grew back right.  Kobe has not had an issue like that yet though.  Last summer, his hair grew so fast I had to shave him again about a month later.  I don't think it is cruel in every circumstance.  When Kobe gets a bit older I probably won't do it anymore, but for now it works great for both of us.
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Offline Ratwings

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 10:56:02 PM »
Personally, if I had a long haired dog I would shave the fur on its belly- since that is the area where they release the most heat- and trim (but not shave) the fur on its back so it would still be protected from the sun.  *shrugs*
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Offline mama_o_4

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2008, 02:14:06 PM »
Shaving the Schnauzer completely will not hurt it at all. You will need to take precautions to protect it from the cold/heat/insects. The earlier poster was right. You will need to specify to your groomer that you want the dog completely shaved head to tail. "All off" to many groomers would just be the body not necessarily the face. Good Luck :)



Offline ~Lin

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2008, 08:06:11 PM »
If you touch the skin of a shaved dog, and touch the skin of a double coated dog you will realize that shaving them strips their insulation and protection against the heat.

Offline mama_o_4

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2008, 08:12:23 PM »
In double coated breeds that is true. Schnauzers have a different type of coat though. It will not hurt the dog to be shaved. In double coated breeds it is best to leave the coat if at all possible. That being said, the coat must be combed out, with no mats or dead undercoat in the hair. If a person is unable to do this then shaving is an alternative.



Offline ScoutGotBig

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 09:02:46 AM »
As the owner of a double coated dog who has been clipped - if anyone who thinks it's hideous to clip him and would like to do the massive grooming he requires to keep his coat from matting in the summer, I'll gladly send him over. 

What we expected from him in the shelter was a Border Collie type coat, which we were prepared to groom.  What we've got is a Great Pyr/Collie type outer coat with a very dense undercoat - plus he's a mud roller and digger.  His coat didn't really show up until about 12 weeks after we got him on a decent quality diet.  Also about the time he started growing into the moose he is now.

He didn't go back to the shelter for being a moose.  He didn't go back for having a ton of coat.  But no, we weren't prepared for the grooming he requires, and it's easier for everyone to body clip him.

The coat protection doesn't really matter (per what I've heard from rescue people) in dogs who are inside pet dogs.  Outside dogs, yes, it'll matter.  But if the dog spends 23 hours a day inside, they'll be fine.
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Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 09:24:30 AM »
I think what matters most on whether to shave a double coated dog or not is how the dog is cared for.  If the dog is an indoor dog or is taken inside somewhere to get out of the heat on those hot days then it is fine to clip them.  If the owner is aware that there is a danger to the dog by clipping them and that they need more supervision when outside then go ahead and clip the dog.

However, if the dog is 100% out doors and has no where to escape the heat such as going inside then I agree it would be cruel to clip the dog.  It is the dogs only protection from the sun. 

But then again I personally think 100% outdoor dogs and "farm" dogs who are allowed to run the property is cruel and unsafe anyway.  Just my humble opinion whatever it matters.

Staci
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Offline ScoutGotBig

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 10:57:24 AM »
The other problem with 100% outside dogs needing the protection the coat provides - the coat protection only works if the coat is kept in perfect condition with no matting.  Matting means the coat will trap heat.  Maybe it's just the area, but I can't find an outside dog who has a nice coat, they are filthy nasty disgusting matted things.  I helped rescue a Great Pyr and the poor dog didn't have a coat, the dog was a matted thing who had his tail matted to his hock and was turned over to rescue with the claim of being "broken" because he didn't walk - he was so matted, he could barely stand and movement was extremely painful.  It was worse than shearing a sheep or llama (as I've done both and why I tend to get into these messes).  We had to clip hair off the front let to get the dog sedated for grooming since it was too painful otherwise, and the hair didn't fall off, it just stayed with the rest.  It took 5 hours to shave this dog.  Post shaving - he lost 43 lbs of hair and filth and had to spend months in doggy rehab to rebuild his muscles - but yes, he could walk and roam around.

Then again, I've never met an average pet Pyr who didn't have some matting at least starting - that darn doggy drool.
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Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2008, 10:11:53 PM »
I had Minnie shaved the middle of January some time.  I can't remember.  But I did take before and after pics to show you all.  The after pic was taken tonight so she has had about a months worth of growth.  I personally think she looks better shaved and I am considering keeping her shaved.  I just am not a big fan of bearded dogs.  Something about those slimy stinky beards when they get grown out.







Drum roll please....................

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Offline Heather

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2008, 12:10:47 AM »
Looks MUCH better shaved! I think she has a new look. :)

Offline aphoeniceus

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2008, 12:27:09 AM »
Wow, she looks so much better with her coat shaved!  BTW, how are her teeth?
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Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2008, 07:50:13 AM »
Her teeth are doing great.  Her mouth smells less and less like a rotten fish each day.  The newest issue is that I think she has some sort of allergy unless it is a nervious behaviour but she licks the inside of her paws and legs constantly.  I still need to get her into the vet for a few shots that she is past due for so when I go I am going to talk to him about it.  I thought of giving her some benedryl just to see if that helps at all. 

The vet did say that I had to bring her back in 6 months to a year as there are more teeth in there with the roots exposed but he did not want to pull too many at one time so he only pulled the really loose ones and really rotten ones when he did it this time.  She had 11 teeth pulled.  I can't imagine there are that many left in there.  LOL

Staci
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Offline ScoutGotBig

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2008, 08:33:45 AM »
Looks better!!!!  So, what does Bud think of Minnie?
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Offline JR1030

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2008, 09:33:41 PM »
She looks great!  I can't stand any kind of "beard" on dogs, either.  It's always disgusting, and I find myself constantly pushing the dog away, no matter how sweet they are.  Much better to be clean and well groomed.  :thumbsup2:
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Offline Ratwings

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2008, 10:37:17 PM »
Her haircut looks so pretty!
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Offline QueenoftheWereRats

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2008, 08:38:48 PM »
oh my before and after! the after looks like a COMPLETELY brand new dog! and A LOT CUTER! im a groomer and we once got a cream colored schnauzer in that i had to shave all over (the beard was a MESS and i couldnt even salvage any of it although i was able to save the eyebrows and just shortened them) im so glad that u are such a caring person to give this dog a cleaner, healthier way of living :).

not to fuel anyone's anger's or anything (or hijack the thread too much) but i just wanted to add, that i really dont believe as a groomer, it is "cruel" to "shave" a breed not normally "shaved" if there is a valid enough reason to do so. i mean, people, for example, do "shave" their golden's coat shorter for less bulk and more easy maintenence. i know of a lab who came (into the school i learned to groom) to be shaved, starting from the neck ending at the tail, because the husband developed a medical issue that contradicted with the dog's coat, but the couple both love the dog so much they dont want to part with him after many years. they find less hair on the dog DOES seem to at least help their situation be more tolerable. yes this may seem a little ridiculous, but think about it this way- the couple love this dog so much even tho one of them has an issue, that they are WILLING to spend the money to take this dog to a groomer even if they didnt have to and probably could just give the dog up, after so many years of owning him. again, i do agree in some cases it is better for the dog to not be clipped, but in others if there is a valid reason, why not have a more managable cut? at the same time i also believe in some cases if a person looks to own a dog knowing it has long hair and is able to maintain the coat by not getting it clipped that's great as well and, as a groomer, would always hope people would be willing to do that, but there are two sides to everything in this crazy-busy world we live in. :)

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Offline Cigar

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2008, 10:29:09 AM »
She looks stunning without that shaggy coat weighing her down. It is completely acceptable to shave a dog, no matter the breed, in order to keep them comfortable and clean. It's also a great way to learn how to maintain the coat properly as it grows in.

Offline ~Lin

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2008, 04:38:39 PM »
Cigar, you don't understand. Certain breeds when shaved are LESS comfortable. And sometimes their coat never comes back the way it should

Offline NutKitty

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2008, 10:01:03 AM »
She looks stunning without that shaggy coat weighing her down. It is completely acceptable to shave a dog, no matter the breed, in order to keep them comfortable and clean. It's also a great way to learn how to maintain the coat properly as it grows in.

I completely disagree.  Double-coated breeds should NOT be shaved down.  There is no reason for it unless they have huge mats/or other sanitary reason.  Their coats are made that way for a reason.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2008, 02:26:08 PM »
If you guys want to discuss the shaving of double-coated dogs, please start another thread.  This one is about a schnauzer!   :poke:

Offline Cigar

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2008, 08:36:11 AM »
The Schnauzer clip is for aesthetic purposes only.

I think the topic creator used the wrong term when they asked if it would be ''cruel''. Unless it's terribly cold outside, or you don't know what you're doing and butcher your dog, shaving them isn't cruel. Sure, some coats would fair better if they weren't messed with but she's old and comfort is the number 1 concern.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 08:41:39 AM by Cigar »

Offline NutKitty

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2008, 11:07:12 AM »
Schnauzers are just asking for a shaving!   :yelcutelaugh:

I saw some Schnauzer pups recently myself, and was awfully tempted...   :doh:

Offline OldsGal

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2008, 12:41:13 PM »
Schnauzers are just asking for a shaving!   :yelcutelaugh:

I saw some Schnauzer pups recently myself, and was awfully tempted...   :doh:

I will gladly pack mine up and ship it to you!

Staci
Treat everyday like a dog would.  If you can't eat it or chew on it then pee on it and walk away!

Offline Mousie452

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Re: Would it be Cruel to Shave a Schnauzer? Pics added 2-14-08
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2008, 02:40:45 PM »
She looks much better. Dogs start with 42 teeth so even though she's probably lost some due to age and health as well as the 11, she'll still have enough.

I know this post is about a schnauzer, but ~Lin was just trying to clarify why somebody would be asking about cruelty and shaving so people who read this post and are unaware about shaving issues aren't confused. No harm in making a clarification for the sake of the original issue. No wonder this forum is barely used, you guys like to start holy wars over everything.