Author Topic: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...  (Read 2021 times)

Offline *~Phoenix~*

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Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« on: May 21, 2010, 09:35:10 PM »
I HATE making threads like this. I always feel like it's my fault when things like this happen, and I feel sooooo bad...ugh. But without further adeu, here is the situation:

My rat number had dwindled down from about 58 to 22. They were all getting older (my youngest were almost 2, my oldest are about 3 and a half), and lately they've been passing away rather rapidly. To the point where I have to do a daily check to make sure they were all still alive. I hate having to do that and finding one, or even two dead in the same day. The past 2 weeks I've lost 5. It was really really getting me depressed so I decided to form a younger group. A group that I know would be with me for awhile. Enter Sam, Jacob, and Maverick. I got Sam first, and then the next day I got Jacob and Maverick to join him. I split the critter nation in 2, with 7 girls on top, (i know that's technically too much, but even when they had the entire thing to themselves, they all stayed on the top part anyway) and the three new boys on the bottom. I flipped the pan around and took away the ladder connecting the two levels and I thought what I put in the corner with the opening was heavy enough. Apparently it wasn't, because yesterday I go in to say good morning, and I couldn't find Maverick anywhere. I thought he was just being a brat and hiding because rats (at least mine anyway) think it's funny to hide in crazy places and scare the crap out of mommy. So then I look up top, and there he is looking soooo smug with all 7 girls curled up next to him.  :doh: I grabbed him and put him in the playpen and just walked away because I knew if I stayed by him I would have wrung his horny little neck. Then I had to tell my mom. I thought I was going to throw up. Because I just KNEW she was going to kill me. I told her that something horrible happened and then I just layed on her bed saying "my life sucks...why does god hate me, mom?" and I think she felt bad because she knew that I felt so horrible because she said later on "I'm not mad at you", which I thought was going to be followed with a "but..." and then something like how I had to get any pregnant ones put to sleep. Because the last pregnancy scare (which was my fault--I accidentaly left a girl in the playpen then put a boy in, TOTALLY not realizing Emma was still in there.) and her and my dad were PISSED and said that if she was pregnant that I had to get Emma or the babies put to sleep. I don't know why this time was different. But anyways. I'm weighing the girls every day and I made a personal plan for each of the girls. I can't afford to e-spay everyone. I just can't. So I'm going to have to make some tough calls. If my oldest, Diva (who's around 3) is pregnant, I will have her put to sleep. She is far too old to undergo an e-spay or to have another litter. She has had 2 very large litters in the past and I doubt she'd make it through another. If one of her 2 daughters, Emma (who is about 5 months younger than Diva) is pregnant, I will let her have the litter. If Emma's sister, Destinee (who's the same age as Emma), is pregnant, I will take her to the vet and have the vet do a blood test to see if one of her lumps is cancer. If it's cancer, it wouldn't be fair to her or the babies to let her have a litter. So I'll either e-spay her or have her PTS, depending on what the vet reccomends. Then there's the 3 younger girls, who are almost 2. Leah has several large bumps. They just keep popping up everywhere and growing very fast, so I was planning on having her PTS just so she doesn't have to suffer (she can barely get around because she has so many lumps). If Lexie and/or Sadie are pregnant, they should have healthy babies. They are both healthy and always have been, so there are no concerns with them. Then there's Eclaire, who is my toughest decision. She has had cancer for almost a year (She will be 2 on June 3rd), and they thought for sure that she wouldn't live past a couple months after being diagnosed. She has had about 5 tumors removed, and she has a sixth one that I haven't done anything with yet because it is still small. I have spent close to $2,000 to keep her alive, I won't get her PTS. So it's either an e-spay or let her have babies. She is beautiful, her and Maverick would have picture-perfect babies. But 1) I don't know how her body would handle the stress of a litter, and 2) would she pass the cancer gene onto her babies? I'm just so stressed right now, because I can't afford e-spays for all of them, or even half of them, but I can't afford for them each to have a litter...

So here are the descriptions and some pics of the girls who are possibly prego:

I'll go in the order they were mentioned.

Diva, Emma, and Destinee (Diva is a standard ear mink hooded, Emma and Destinee are standard ear black and white hoodeds):



Here's Leah, Lexie, and Sadie; all posing at the same time: (Leah is a black capped with a white dot on her forehead, Lexie is an agouti capped with a heart shaped spot on her butt, and Sadie..well, Sadie has very strange markings. She has an agouti broken hood with a white blaze down her forehead--all are standard ear)

(L to R: Sadie, Lexie, Leah)

(L to R: Leah, Sadie, Lexie)

(L to R: Lexie, Sadie, Leah)

Lexie:

And here's Eclaire who is SUCH a darling. You can see in my pic that she likes to give very thorough finger groomings. Eclaire is a black/white variberk with a broken blaze on her head and white by her mouth. She also is an odd-eye with dumbo ears)

Here is daddy Maverick. I still don't know what Maverick's markings are called. My guess was black split capped with blaze, and obviously dumbo ears. He is VERY playful, but will settle down for a good ear scritching.


He decided that he doesn't like fleece and that it just HAD to go. Silly boy.

He has such an irresistable face.

With a face like his, it's hard to stay mad at him.

So there they are. I am weighing daily, and am planning on babies. Unfortunately, I only have one tank, so I'm going to have to get creative. I have another cage that isn't a tank, but it has a deep bottom, so it MIGHT work, but we'll see. (Does anyone know if rats can/will chew through those big tupperware bins? If those are ok, I may be able to grab a couple and make a screen lid...)

If anyone can help me in any way, I would GREATLY appreciate it. I am pretty strict on who I adopt to, but only because I love my ratties and want to see them go to good homes. If you are interested in adopting, let me know and I'll send you some questions that I send anyone who ever expresses an interest in my rats.
Home of Daisie, Maizie, Bailie, Maci, Ebony, Kassadee, and Ivy (mice); Chico and Maggie (dogs); Smeagol, Mia (cats); Wildfire (horse); Sullivan (aka Sully) and Jakey (goats); Starlight, Starbright, and Esteban (fish)

Offline 4everrats

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 03:25:39 AM »
Rats can chew threw anything except mettal. The lid ideah should work. Just make sure it is smooth. Also I live in the Indianapolis area. I am a breeder and rescue. I also take in elderly rats and they become sanctuary. That inclueds rats that are 2 years plus. www.sweetandlovingrats.com is my web site. Currently I am not running it. I dont have a computer just a phone with internet. I hate to hear you have to put any of the rats to sleep. If I could I would come get them for you. Hope my info helped.

Offline Stacy M

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 05:57:44 PM »
I just want to let you know, that Eclaire has an EXTREMELY high risk for having megacolon babies.  If at all possible, I would at least espay her.  Odd-eye blaze is most definately high white, and it looks like the father is high white too.  With a high white father all the babies have a risk of MC, but the risk is higher when both parents are high white.  Sorry I know it isn't good news but you surely should be aware.

There aren't really any easy solutions here, it is a horrible situation.  I'm very sorry.  I really really hope that none are pregnant.  For the meantime, like was suggested, metal to block the hole is the best way to secure the cage, although really if at all possible I would house them in a seperate cage.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 05:59:35 PM by smesyna »

Offline samanthad75

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2010, 06:11:25 PM »
just because they have a risk of it is not reason to abort the litter. i am sorry, but just bacause an animal is at risk for something does NOT mean they WILL have it. if neither parent has had issues with mega colon in their family trees, then the chances are minimal to have it. when i had my daughter, one of the tests i had done said that she COULD have Down Syndrome, but she came out fine, no issues. please contact me for help. i could take the mothers in, help them through their litters and return the moms once weaned, and take the babies into rescue, working to find them homes once old enough.

Tami
Social Rats Adoption and Rescue

Offline RattiesSix

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2010, 07:15:11 PM »
There's no discussions in adoptions. If you have questions, you should post them in Rat Care.

Offline *~Phoenix~*

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 08:09:29 PM »
Well here's the update.

There's alot of bad news, I have cried more in the past 3 days then I have in awhile. I've had to make alot of tough decisions, there's been alot of fighting between myself (on behalf of the ratties) and my mom. For the first 8 days she said NOTHING about the possible pregnancies, except for the fact that she wasn't mad at me. And she even helped me pick out supplies. But all of a sudden on Wedneday, she exploded and said that I better pray to god that none of the rats are pregnant, and if they are, any that I can't adopt out, once they're weaned need to be out of the house otherwise she'll take them to Petco. I approached her the next day with a compromise. Even though the vet felt that Leah and Diva *should* be able to have a healthy litter, despite Diva's age and Leah's tumors, I told my mom I would get them put to sleep if she would either help pay for spays for the remaining girls, OR let me take care of and pay for the ones I can't adopt out. No deal. If anything, she acted even more mad. Since then, Emma has died, and Eclaire..my heart rat..left me to go play at the rainbow bridge. So that brought the number down to 3 possible preggers. And then the number went down to 2 when Lexie went into heat. I can only afford one espay, and I decided that Destinee would be the one I'd espay because her weigh has increased the most out of the remaining girls. (It's weird tho..the weights are all fluctuating within 10 grams of their initial weight..it hasn't been consistently increasing or decreasing, it's been going back and forth..odd.) So that leaves Sadie. I *may* not get Diva put to sleep depending on her weight the day I take Leah in (on Tuesday--that's also when Destinee is getting e-spayed). So it's just been a rough week.

So as you can tell, any babies REALLY need to find homes. My therapist talked to her today and is trying to convince her to let me keep 4 babies if I have to (4 being the magic number, because of the fact that 2 have died and at 2 more will probably be being PTS.). So we'll just see what happens.... :-\
Home of Daisie, Maizie, Bailie, Maci, Ebony, Kassadee, and Ivy (mice); Chico and Maggie (dogs); Smeagol, Mia (cats); Wildfire (horse); Sullivan (aka Sully) and Jakey (goats); Starlight, Starbright, and Esteban (fish)

Offline samanthad75

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 11:15:42 PM »
Keep in mind that Social Rats is here if you need ANYTHING!!! If you need us to foster moms rather than espay until after nursing, if you need us to take in babies, anything you need, we are here. Rescue is about more than just heling rats that can no longer stay with their existing families, but also about helping rats to stay with those families as well. I have a foster, in Wheeling, that may be able to help as well and she is experienced with raising litters. The only thing that stops her from breeding is she would rather help with raising fosters that are already pregnant that producing them herself. Food and meds are supplied to her by me, so they would be on a soy free diet with her AND she has antibiotics on hand that are safe for pregnant and nursing moms. You can contact me at tami@socialrats.com anytime. My email addresses and phone number is also listed on my site http://www.socialrats.com  I would rather help you keep the babies alive, if possible. I am against abortion (personally) unless the pregnancy threatens mom's life. I understand with rats it is different, but it less stress on them to have the babies than it is to have them go through a major surgery. I have lost more rats in surgery than I ever have from giving birth, even with complications.

Tami
Social Rats Adoption and Rescue

Offline Schrute

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 02:00:47 PM »
Good luck with that e-spay! E-spays aren't very risky if you have an experienced vet, I promise. :heart: Keep us updated, *~Phoenix~*!

Offline samanthad75

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 01:18:10 PM »
While for a young healthy rat an eSpay may be very low risk. #1, all surgeries come with risk, more so that a birth will. and #2, we are looking at rats that are up to 2 years old. At this age the surgery could be very risky, even with an experienced vet. The older the rat, the more risk involved. I have had a rat, in rescue, that while with a foster (whom I do not work with anymore) escaped her cage and was found in a males cage. She had a vet appointment that day and because the vet diagnosed this rat with heart failure, the decision was made, without me, to have the rat eSpayed. That rat would have survived the birth of the litter, i have no doubt as she was only a year old. This rat died in surgery even though this was an experienced vet and she had done many eSpays without issues in the past.

Delivery of the litter is always safer than a surgery to abort it. Like I said, Social Rats is willing to help, if needed. I would hate to hear that Pheonix decided to have his females that were prego eSpayed had them pass away in surgery.

Just my opinion from my own experience.

Tami
Social Rats Adoption and Rescue
tami@socialrats.com

Offline *~Phoenix~*

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 01:47:13 PM »
While for a young healthy rat an eSpay may be very low risk. #1, all surgeries come with risk, more so that a birth will. and #2, we are looking at rats that are up to 2 years old. At this age the surgery could be very risky, even with an experienced vet. The older the rat, the more risk involved. I have had a rat, in rescue, that while with a foster (whom I do not work with anymore) escaped her cage and was found in a males cage. She had a vet appointment that day and because the vet diagnosed this rat with heart failure, the decision was made, without me, to have the rat eSpayed. That rat would have survived the birth of the litter, i have no doubt as she was only a year old. This rat died in surgery even though this was an experienced vet and she had done many eSpays without issues in the past.

Delivery of the litter is always safer than a surgery to abort it. Like I said, Social Rats is willing to help, if needed. I would hate to hear that Pheonix decided to have his females that were prego eSpayed had them pass away in surgery.

Just my opinion from my own experience.

Tami
Social Rats Adoption and Rescue
tami@socialrats.com

I made the decision to have Destinee Espayed based on 2 facts. 1 being that she is probably pregnant (her weight has increased more than the others), and 2 being that she has a tumor and I'm hoping that with a spay it will decrease the chance of her having more tumors in the future. Desi is being spayed because I think that is what's best for her health. Spays are expensive, so sure, I would much rather not have to do it, but her health comes first.
Leah is going to be PTS on Tuesday because of the fact that she does have 3 very large lumps. One of them is so big that it makes it hard for her to walk. I can't afford to have 3 tumors removed and/or have her E-spayed (her weight has been increasing as well).  I made this decision even before Maverick got into their cage. I don't like seeing her suffer. I would rather her go peacefully rather than watch as she becomes so immobile that she can't even get up to get a drink of water or to get food.

Based on weight, I really don't think any of the others are pregnant. *crosses fingers* Diva and Sadie could surprise me, but their weight has been fairly consistent over the past 11 days. And Lexie went into heat, so I know she isn't pregnant. As long as Sadie isn't pregnant, I've decided not to get Diva put to sleep.
So hopefully I'll just be very, very lucky.
Thank you for your offers to help, Tami. I know you've got an overload of babies too, so I'm trying to use you as a last resort so that you have a chance of being more successful at rehoming the ones you already have. I will definitly let you know if I need your help, though.  :)
Home of Daisie, Maizie, Bailie, Maci, Ebony, Kassadee, and Ivy (mice); Chico and Maggie (dogs); Smeagol, Mia (cats); Wildfire (horse); Sullivan (aka Sully) and Jakey (goats); Starlight, Starbright, and Esteban (fish)

Offline samanthad75

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 02:37:56 PM »
ok, sounds good. I can defintely understand havingher eSayed because of OTHER health issues. I was just letting you know if you were lanning to do it stictly because of the possible pregnancies, that I, personally, did not think it was a good idea.

Adoptions are going, as usual, slow and steady. I have to get more pics up on my site and I think things will pick up more. Also, once school is finally done and all of the schools are out for the summer things should pick up as well.

Tami
Social Rats Adoption and Rescue

Offline *~Phoenix~*

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 10:52:11 AM »
Update:

Out of the 4 girls left (Emma and Eclaire died, not completely sure why, and I had Leah PTS because of her many tumors), Destinee got E-spayed on Tuesday so there will be no babies from her, and Lexie went into heat a few days back so she's not pregnant. Sadie's weight has been pretty much the exact same for the past week and she has no belly whatsoever. Diva has a bit of a belly but she's always had a bigger belly since her other litters awhile back (her last litter was over a year ago), so it's hard to tell with her, because her weight hasn't been consistent. So I started out with 7 that I thought for sure were all going to be pregnant, and now it's just down to one that *might* be pregnant. It's definitly sad that I've lost 3, but I know Leah would have had a hard time raising a litter with her tumors so I'm at peace with the fact that I let her go. Emma, I feel bad about because the consensus in the Rat Care section was that she died due to complications from a litter that was improperly absorbed. And as for Eclaire, though she was my heart rat, I know she went peacefully and (hopefully) just died in her sleep (her mouth and eyes were close, and she was fine just a few hours before I found her dead. Usually I can tell when my rats are dying because it takes like a day at least and they die with their eyes and mouth open, and they struggle for breath the entire time). With Eclaire's cancer, it would have been a risky litter anyways and she didn't need that extra stress.
Thanks to my counselor, my mom has agreed to let me keep 2 babues, if there are babies. The others I will try and find homes for, and if there's any left who don't have homes, once they are weaned I will find another place to go. And I can just say right now that it will be a GOOD place. It will NOT be Petco (or any other pet store for that matter), and it will NOT be to a place that where they won't be given the proper care they deserve. *fingers crossed for no babies*
Home of Daisie, Maizie, Bailie, Maci, Ebony, Kassadee, and Ivy (mice); Chico and Maggie (dogs); Smeagol, Mia (cats); Wildfire (horse); Sullivan (aka Sully) and Jakey (goats); Starlight, Starbright, and Esteban (fish)

Offline Schrute

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Re: Possible baby overload in Northern IL...
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 03:41:12 PM »
:heart: Your last sentence relieves me. I know I can't talk to you here but you know my PM box is always open.