Author Topic: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?  (Read 2936 times)

Offline Zoomzy

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Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« on: September 30, 2010, 08:50:36 PM »
My double CN arrived the first of this month. I've had it set up for a while (I have it set up like a single at the moment.. the girls are still with the bf, and the weather has been super hot/windy.. so the bass pans still aren't finished. And I do NOT want to move the girls in the top level without the bass pans). I currently have my three boys in it, and don't plan on getting anymore boys. Anyway, I'm really happy with the cage overall.. my boys are too.  ;D

I know that the cage calculator/members here state that each section of the CN can hold 5-6 rats max, but I'm having a hard time even picturing 4 in there. Maybe its that my boys are too big, or I'm simply becoming neurotic about cage space, but is there anyone else here who feels like anything over 4 rats in each section of the CN is pushing it (space-wise)?

Offline Anjel

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 09:37:46 PM »
I got this feeling with my Ferret Nation. It's supposed to hold 6-8rats (i think) but I normally don't feel comfortable putting more than 3-4 in rach...except the boys are usually lazy so we're adding two more boys from our current rescue litter to the big cage (currently with two girls and two boys in it)

It just seems small, but when you think about it, the rats spend most of their time together anyways.  :yelcutelaugh:

Offline greenmagick

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 10:21:37 PM »
i had 5 total in a double and I felt that was about it, maybe one or two more would be ok

Offline greenmagick

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 10:34:05 PM »
i had 5 total in a double and I felt that was about it, maybe one or two more would be ok

Offline Wheeljack

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 10:42:08 PM »
I think 4 per level on FN/CN is the max I would feel comfortable with in most cases.  I have had 5 seniors in one level, but they weren't the most active bunch so it didn't seem like there was an extra rat in there.

Offline MMak

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 10:52:10 PM »
I'm the same way. I have 2 boys in my double FN, but I don't think I would have anymore then 6 in there.
I think with the FN/CN's, you really see how much they use all the space...so, in a sense, it does make us space neurotic.
 ;)
 

Offline MMak

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 11:23:40 PM »
Hate how we can't edit our posts.. lol
Wanted to add that people also tend to forget that the cage calculator show the bare minimum of space that the rats should have...
 

Offline Vallis

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2010, 02:40:49 PM »
Would 8-10 females be unreasonable for a FN (dbl) 142?

Offline The Jenn

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2010, 02:50:51 PM »
No, 8-10 would not be unreasonable. :) Honestly, I had four rats in my CN-161 and they had a very adequate amount of space. I wouldn't necessarily have wanted to add more, though I think that I could have fit another rat in there without consequence so long as they all got along.
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Offline Eternal Dream

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 04:14:24 PM »
I had 9 in total in my double. 7 girls, 2 boys. And they all just stayed on the bottom anyway. It got a little crazy when it came to treat time because everyone rushed the one floor space, but pfft. Still to this day, all 8 now (lost my Tipsy girl the other day  :'( ) still all sleep in one area. I'll have 3 girls in a dog pile on a hammock. The boys and a few females in a dogpile right below the hammock. One in the corner near them, ect. I feel like the big cage is a waste because they really don't seem to use it all. I started taking out a lot of hammocks too because of this reason.

Offline Wheeljack

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 04:23:11 PM »
Would 8-10 females be unreasonable for a FN (dbl) 142?

Not at all.  The calculator says it's good for 12 rats and subtracting 1 or 2 from that number is always a good guideline.
I usually keep 6-8 boys in a double and that's a good amount of space for them.  My boys are all huge apparently so smaller girls would be fine.  Like was mentioned before, the time it seems the most cramped for space is when everyone rushes to one area for treats.  6-8 of my fat boys is all those poor FN shelves can hold at one time, but you'd be fine with girls.

Offline Vallis

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 09:31:23 PM »
awesome, thanks. I'm getting ready to expand the colony (shh, don't tell my girls) and I didn't want to overload the cage.

Offline BaraLahatiel

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 09:40:01 PM »
I figure its the lack of usable vertical space.

There's a cage calculator from England I think where you not only add in height, but the dimensions of each level to get a more accurate scale. I tested it with a big ferret cage I had. The rattycorner calculator said 4 rats, the foreign calculator said only 2. It was linked in a sticky thread in this forum.
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Offline Robinkwr

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 09:55:13 PM »
I have girls and for awhile I had split them, I would only do 2 in each section if it were me... I ended up getting a neutered boy in with a group of two girls... so it was going to make 3 rats in 1 section of a CN and I thought that was too many... but I think I am a little cage crazy with space... but that is just me. So I bought another DCN and I have 1 cage that has 2 girls in it and the 2nd cage has 3 rats in it (2 girls 1 boy)

I also got the cage for the room though, so I felt like I cramped my girls up of running room when I took away half of the cage to split it into two cages. I got it for the room, so on school days that I don't have a lot of time to let them run free they have the extra room in the cage to do so...

For me I wouldn't do more then 5 in a DCN (not split into separate cages).  :dontknow:

I just think its all preference...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 09:57:17 PM by Robinkwr »

Offline Zoomzy

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 02:40:47 AM »
I am so glad that i'm not the only one here who's been feeling this way about any of the CN (or FN) models.. since technically, i'll be able to say that I've had experience with both the single and the double.

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but i love having baby/young rats around, and had actually been considering getting a 4th boy. All 3 of my boys are lazy.. even my newest addition, the Sam rat (he's still very young, exciteable and jumpy.. makes use of every inch of space when he feels like it) prefers to lay about and wait for treats to be given.. so it isnt as though all the space is being used at once. but like another user already said in this thread, there isnt much vertical space.. so you see exactly how much space is being used by the rats as they move around in the cage. i finally came to my senses and thought naaah, these dudes already have a good thing going between just the three of them.. one more boy probably wouldnt make much difference space-wise, but even then im pretty sure id obsess about it too much to get a 4th rat and feel completely comfortable with it. besides that, i dont want to overwhelm my oldest two, since they experienced a very recent loss and just accepted a new roommate.. and then ill be bringing in my 2 girls soon. i plan on getting them fixed so evetually, all the rats can together.. but i think im going to attempt to be realistic and keep no more than 5 to 6 rats in the entire double CN. im not saying that i have buyers remorse or anything.. i really do love the cage. it is hands down, the nicest cage that i have ever owned, but perhaps the RUDD or one of martin's big ferret cages would have been a more comfortable choice. better use of vertical space.. the CN is a nice big cage, but i think its lack of vertical height per cage section makes it seem oddly cramped sometimes.

Offline Zoomzy

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2010, 02:45:35 AM »
i would also like to apologize for my crappy punctuation this evening. i had to post this through my cell (again.. no internet at home). what a PITA. its like i spell words out too fast for it to register, so essentially what i end up with is something along the lines of "aaaaaaaaaaadjakaska double CN." not to rant on about that though. i just hijacked my own post lol

Offline mccauleywent73005

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2010, 10:10:31 AM »
yeah, i cant say that i have ever owned a FN/CN, nor that i care to, but its just really "lacking" in the use of internal space. i think that a r695 can much better handle 4-5 rats than a single CN. smesyna and i actually figured out the actual floor space of the single fn to the 695 a bit ago and the 695 was 1440, whereas the CN was only 1300 i believe, and in the martins, the rats actually have room to "Get away" from another rat if they do wish so. i often find that, even tho my mixed sex cage gets along GREAT their age difference sometimes makes Nessie and Bella need to take a break from the boys when they are in the "hyper" mode, so the girls will go downstairs, and the boys will stay upstairs and play like nuts jumping all over  ::) it just better gives rats a place to go when they want to be left alone, and not be bothered by the others. it also gives them more exercise, which is never a bad thing  :wink5: if i had a single CN i think 3 would be my max, with probably 7 max in a double.

Offline Stacy M

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2010, 10:13:27 AM »
The single CN only had 1152 I believe, so nearly 1200.  But agreed, that is probably part of why a lot of you aren't comfortable with the cage calcs reccomendation.

Offline mccauleywent73005

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2010, 10:31:31 AM »
The single CN only had 1152 I believe, so nearly 1200.  But agreed, that is probably part of why a lot of you aren't comfortable with the cage calcs reccomendation.

yep, i still cant see how the CN fits 6 and the 695 fits 5  :doh: but thats better left for another topic  ::)

honestly, i had a old 685 in which i added another level to, and had groups of 4-5 girls in it (even had 6-- 3 babies 3 adults for maybe 2 months) and i think they were just on the brink of being squished. the extra full level, plus the added balcony i had in their, really made great use of the space. i really miss that cage  :BlueDumboBigEyes: i might add, the majority of my girls i get from my breeder are very petit, ranging about 260-290g. bella is my monster female rattie at 360-380g. i think ALOT of "feeder" Rats get much bigger than most rats bought from a actual breeder, due to selective breeding from the breeders for smaller rats, and feeder breeders wanting the "larger" rats, which does have, IMO a little say so in how much room they need, as does free range time. if you have your rats out 4-6 hours each day, they can probably deal with a closed quarters alot better than a rat that only gets free time for 1hour a day, not that free time should in ANYWAY dictate the size of the cage  :wink5: hope that makes sense haha.

it all comes down to, bigger really is better, but, your are NOT a bad parent if your cage is at its max capacity. everyone has their own views on the matter.  :wink5:

Offline Stacy M

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 04:24:18 PM »
it all comes down to, bigger really is better, but, your are NOT a bad parent if your cage is at its max capacity. everyone has their own views on the matter.  :wink5:
Yes, this!  Sometimes this board (no not anyone in this thread!!!) comes off that way :( 

And yeah, just to add on what else you said, I feel that having the rats at the max can be compensated for with more free range time, but bigger cages do not compensate for very little free range time.  Free range time is about more than room to run, its a change of environment.

Offline Zoomzy

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 07:19:52 PM »
Quote
Quote
it all comes down to, bigger really is better, but, your are NOT a bad parent if your cage is at its max capacity. everyone has their own views on the m
atter.
Yes, this!  Sometimes this board (no not anyone in this thread!!!) comes off that way  :(

And yeah, just to add on what else you said, I feel that having the rats at the max can be compensated for with more free range time, but bigger cages do not compensate for very little free range time.  Free range time is about more than room to run, its a change of environment.

I second this entirely. Like Robinkwr said (I'm on an actual computer today.. not my mobile, so I can actually scroll up easily to see who said what), it looks like its simply a matter of preference. Making good use of the space you have is crucial of course, but I think it would be totally unrealistic for anyone to try and find fault in a person who kept five or more in their single CN/FN. The calculators are only capable of giving a recommendation as to how many rats you should keep in a cage I suppose, they're not set in stone. As the rattie parent, it's the individual who knows what their rats require from the cage space they were given, the size of each rat/how much space they use when they're most active. 5-6 in a single CN may work just fine for some, whereas others keep only that same amount in a double. Personally, I've found that it would probably be best to keep my 3 boys at a time in a single due to their size. With just the 3 of them in there, its easier for them to get away from each other when they need alone time. Sewing more tube hammocks could probably also help that. I'm still trying to fight off anymore thoughts about getting a 4th rat, though!

I also agree with mccauleywent73005 that the Martin's makes it easier for rats to get away when necessary.. the separate levels in the R-695 make pretty good use of space I think.. I've never owned one so of course I can't say that for sure, but seeing pictures of the R-695 in comparison to my CN proves a pretty valid point (at least it does to me).

Offline Snippet

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 05:48:00 PM »
I've never owned a CN, but I do think it would benefit from an extra shelf or 2 in each section to make use of the height.  I've had to do the same thing with my current cage otherwise it's not really usable.
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Offline conservasian

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 02:38:52 PM »
Sorry, I'm new to this calculating floor space discussion.  By adding additional levels to the CN, would you then increase the floor space to change the number of rats it will "fit"?

Offline Stacy M

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Re: Unrealstic expectations about cage space..?
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 02:42:44 PM »
Sorry, I'm new to this calculating floor space discussion.  By adding additional levels to the CN, would you then increase the floor space to change the number of rats it will "fit"?
It doesn't increase the number per the rat cage calculator, as the rat cage calculator says it can fit up to one rat per 2cu ft IF the space is properly utilized.  So a cage that by volume could fit four but has no levels can't really fit four, but if you add levels to it to maximize the space usage then can.  Make sense?