Author Topic: Puppy Questions  (Read 393 times)

Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Puppy Questions
« on: December 21, 2011, 07:44:24 PM »
Well, this is my first pup in a while and so far she's doing pretty well, though she is very stubborn and difficult to redirect. I've been clapping or snapping my fingers to get her attention or interrupt a naughty behavior and then I usually move her and give her a chew toy as most of the naughty things she does involve chewing inappropriate objects.

I posted my most current pics and the back story here: http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4093091.0

I've been feeding 1/4 cup of Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain Canine Formula with Roasted Lamb and 3 Tablespoons of Esbillac Second Step Formula blended into mush with a 1/2 cup of water per feeding and she's fed 4 times a day. Does this sound about right? I'm hoping it'll fatten her up and help her catch up on her development if she needs to.

And, I'm not quite sure what to do to get my mutt to do more than begrudgingly acknowledge her, she just stares at her stiffly or gets up and 'stomps' off as soon as the pup tries to lay with her. She's always been a loner and prefers me to other dogs, as I described in the linked thread above, she loves to play with me just as she should another dog. She does pretty well with older dogs, I know because we've had a Great Dane that she loved to rough house with before the Dane was re-homed due to medical issues. We also had an obese lab around the house for 2 years while her owner was away in Saudi and the lab was decently tolerated, they agreed to disagree and didn't fight, but they didn't play either.

Any tips on introducing her to a nippy pup? The only positive interaction they've had involved the puppy sleeping next to me and my mutt climbing onto the couch to lay by me, but as soon as the pup woke up she was biting on my mutt's tail and that got her a bit of a growl quickly followed by a rumbling whine because my mutt is verbal and knows I don't like her being aggressive toward the pup. A positive sign is that my mutt does show concern for her when she whines or yips in frustration, she gets up to check on her and lays down a few feet away, though it may be more curiosity than concern it's better than nothing.

Any other tips are welcome, though I'm definitely not a newbie to puppies I am a newbie to positive reinforcement with puppies. It's been effective so far as she is choosing her toys more often now and she's even catching on to potty training really quickly, but she is still young so she is a feisty lil' bugger and loves to get into things.
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 02:06:53 PM »
Hmm, some of this pups behavior worries me. When I take her out she pees two or three times, it's as though she can't empty her bladder the first time. And she is very uncoordinated, can't track with just her eyes, smoothly, and unless her food bowl is right under her nose it doesn't exist, that last one may be due to her 2 second attention span, but it still worries me because she sniffs around for it but can't seem to find it. And, I'm thinking that her hips haven't developed properly due to her malnutrition because she waddles around like a duck and occasionally turns back to gnaw on her back legs in what appears to be frustration.

Is this normal for a pup her age from her background? She didn't have any siblings and I'd thought that would be a health advantage, but I guess her mom was too young and immature so she didn't get proper care. She's a pig, so I don't worry about her filling out at all, and she sleeps after every meal like a pup should, plays and potties once she's up, then eats and the cycle repeats.

Opinions or previous experience, anyone?
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Offline Dragonfly

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 04:24:19 PM »
I really don't have any advice, other than a vet visit should be in order to check out her development levels and such.. She is a big breed dog and may have issues with hip dysplasia and the like.. Though I have NO experience with Pyrenees puppies. She is ADORABLE though, and  I would love to see more pictures..

As far as your mutt and her interacting, I would give it some time and make sure that you give her some individualized attention away from the puppy. She may just be confused as to who this little monster is taking away mommy's time.  Plus, puppies can be annoying to older dogs.
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2011, 03:15:50 PM »
My mutt, Georgia, is now playing with the puppy and properly disciplining her as well. They're both lying on either side of me as I type this, sleeping like rocks. Georgia has been delightfully patient with the lil' monster, even as she's being attacked from every angle she now just lays there and only stands to 'swat' Daisy when she really bites down or tugs on her tail.

The puppy, Daisy, is on to hard food covered in thick formula and is digesting it well. Her potty habits still concern me, last night, as an example, she was taken out and peed 3 times then brought in and crated, less than an hour later she peed in the crate, she was bathed, the crate was washed, and she was taken out, she peed twice. Then she was re-crated, she peed the crate again 20 minutes later, I washed her paws, cleaned the crate, took her out to pee, and re-crated her for the last time. Is this normal for a puppy her age?

She's going to the vet next pay day which is when she's 6-7 weeks of age and she's getting all of her shots and what-not, and probably going to schedule a spay as well.
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Offline Dragonfly

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2011, 03:55:25 PM »
With a bigger bread dog (really with any breed) I would wait on the spay for at least 6 to 8 months.. There is a lot of research and controversy  on the best time to spay to minimize side effects and developmental issues. Unless of course their is an issue with her reproductive organs....
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2011, 04:11:26 PM »
Just scheduling, not getting it done, she'll probably be spayed around 4 months of age to be on the safe side. I believe that it's healthier for a dog to be spayed or neutered early and I'd like to avoid any arguments about when and after what heat and all that. I'll discuss our options with my vet and get things done when he says it's appropriate.
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Offline Dragonfly

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2011, 04:30:54 PM »
Just scheduling, not getting it done, she'll probably be spayed around 4 months of age to be on the safe side. I believe that it's healthier for a dog to be spayed or neutered early and I'd like to avoid any arguments about when and after what heat and all that. I'll discuss our options with my vet and get things done when he says it's appropriate.

of course.. I actually believe the same thing (my Diver dog was 5 months old when he was neutered, though he had some issues  and it was the safest and best course of action, though, before those issues were aparent my vet recommened to wait until he was 8 months old).
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 10:15:13 PM »
Well, I definitely don't worry about Georgia and Daisy getting along any more. Once Georgia figured out that Daisy is not a temporary visitor/nuisance she's more than happy to pitch in and babysit for short periods. Daisy has literally been trying to rip Georgia apart, by grabbing mouth fulls of fur/skin/tail and tugging/head shaking with all her might on a daily basis. For the most part, if she's distracted by a toy or person, Georgia completely ignores her. When they both actively play together, that's when the real fun begins, Daisy will climb atop Georgia and then Georgia will grab and kick her like a cat will nibbling all over her face, she'll even, on occasion, let Daisy stretch across her body then roll over really quick and throw the lil' pup a short distance. Luckily Daisy loves it and goes right back for more, she's a tough puppy.

Sadly, while looking for training tips I've learned that most of my efforts are going to waste because she doesn't yet have the mental capacity to learn much more than her name, nor is she able to control her bowels very well, at all. Hopefully she'll begin to catch on better once she's 8 weeks +, for now I'll continue with my persistent redirection and taking her out to potty every time she wakes up, is done playing, etc. Most of what I've accomplished with her is getting her to follow me around off lead, moderately tolerate the crate (only with me in the room, if someone comes in she gets fussy and believes that they'll let her out), diminish her nipping/inappropriate chewing (she's more likely to chose her own toys rather than household objects).

Her feedings have gone up to 1/3rd of a cup per meal with only her morning meal including the formula.

As I type this Georgia is trying to smother Daisy beneath a play bow, it's hilarious, I wish they'd hold still long enough for a photo. I'll update with pictures, mostly of a chewing or sleeping Daisy, sometime tomorrow.
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Offline eyohkay

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 10:36:07 PM »
I can't give much advice on her potty issues, but I do have some general puppy advice.  I just recently got a job at a dog training/daycare/boarding facility, and it is astounding the number of dogs that we have that have serious behavioral and anxiety problems due to lack of proper socialization as a pup.  It is far more important than you could ever possibly imagine.  Make sure she meets as many people as possible, of all shapes and sizes and colors and genders.  Once she's up to date on her shots, make sure she meets as many dogs as possible... try and get her in a puppy class, take her to the dog park, schedule play dates with your friend's dogs.  Her major window of socialization will close at 4 months of age, so don't put it off.

Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy are some pretty good books that I had to read as part of my training for work.  The links go directly to PDF files of the books.

Offline Sorraia

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 10:59:34 AM »
I can't give much advice on her potty issues, but I do have some general puppy advice.  I just recently got a job at a dog training/daycare/boarding facility, and it is astounding the number of dogs that we have that have serious behavioral and anxiety problems due to lack of proper socialization as a pup.  It is far more important than you could ever possibly imagine.  Make sure she meets as many people as possible, of all shapes and sizes and colors and genders.  Once she's up to date on her shots, make sure she meets as many dogs as possible... try and get her in a puppy class, take her to the dog park, schedule play dates with your friend's dogs.  Her major window of socialization will close at 4 months of age, so don't put it off.

Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy are some pretty good books that I had to read as part of my training for work.  The links go directly to PDF files of the books.

And not just to different people and dogs, but to different situations: sights, sounds, smells, textures of ground, etc. The more exposure a dog has to different stimuli, the more stable and confident they will be later in life. It is not unlike "desensitizing" a horse.
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 01:44:19 PM »
eyohkay- I know what you mean, I used to volunteer for a place that offered those same services. There were a few regulars that were labeled untouchable except by one or two workers, you couldn't even walk by their kennels without risk of injury to yourself or the dog. Even had some Lab sisters come in that were on Prozac, it was the darnedest thing. And a sudo-rescue was always taking in her dogs of varying temperament that were never worked with, so.... yeah, most were not happy campers.

My dog, Georgia, has some anxiety problems with strangers due to one idiot in the house encouraging her to hide beneath our coffee table and snarl at guests, I've now got her trained to approach wearily with her hackles raised. She calms down after a few minutes, and it's better than hiding, glaring, and shaking like a leaf. We lived in an apartment complex when she was growing up and she got plenty of socialization outside of the house with dogs and people of all shapes and sizes.

Although, I'm a firm believer that animals are the best judge of character, and I let them go with their gut instinct. Often, if they decide they don't like someone, they're avoided, especially if I sense that something is wrong with them. To me, when I socialize any animal, I believe that it's of the utmost importance that they develop the ability to identify people that are safe and people that could potentially be dangerous.

Here is something that I myself use on a daily basis, have since I was a child, and I think this is a tool that animals themselves use as well: http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/1966-personality-traits-affect-smell.html

I, personally, can 'scent' through crowds and find a single officer with a gun, or a friend that's been lost in the swarm. And I've found myself to be much more accurate then the 'raters' mentioned in the link above when it comes to judging character/personality traits based on scent. If I myself can accomplish this I can only imagine what animals are capable of.

I'd definitely schedule a play date, but most of my friends either have dogs that are being trained improperly and are turning into snappy brats, or dogs that aren't altered and are not safe to be around puppies. I do have one friend that has some good dogs, smart things, but they're too rambunctious to play with a pup, they'd run her into the dirt in seconds.

Puppy Classes are another issue in and of themselves. The only place around here that offers them, s far as I know, is Petsmart and I never see anything good come out of them, always nippy, anxiety ridden dogs that aren't being taught how to play, but rather how to be controlled. And when I go up to their Doggy Daycare windows I never see any playing dogs, I always see them standing around in an overcrowded room too stressed to move. So.... I will try to set up a play date with my friends nippy brat before I take her to any of the shoddy places around here. The place I mentioned earlier, that I volunteered for, is not good with puppies, their play yards are too big and the play groups are always too rowdy for a young pup.

We don't have a dog park, otherwise I'd be spending my weekends there. :yelcutelaugh: We have parks that people sometimes bring there dogs to, but usually there's only one person there at a time with their animals, it's wide open next to a busy road, and there is always a big man-made lake filled with geese right in the middle. ::) There may be one or two with walking tracks that I could bring her to, I've found that it's really easy to socialize dogs around people that are exercising, cause once they're done jogging they come over, soaked in pleasant pheromones, and are more than happy to love on the dogs.

I think we'll probably be going with, primarily, in-house socialization, due to most of the above and our current country location. My brother has a few good friends that come over that are loud and sweet, so far they've been great fun for Daisy to play with. We have at least one visitor a week, people of all ages that come in for this and that reason, and she's been open and happy to see each and everyone of them thus far. She even did splendidly when we took her into Tractor Supply her second day with us, she was being loved on by all sorts of people and didn't fuss once. And inter-species socialization should pose no problem, I've got cats that are slowly teaching her what claws are and what hissing means (no worries, they'll warm up in time). :yelcutelaugh: I also have horses in the back that she's very curious about, once she's garnered some more control over her limbs she'll be back there on lead meeting them properly, which, in horse terms, is lining up nose to nose to exchange breathe.

Anyways, thank you very much for the links. ;D I'm already delving into 'After You Get Your Puppy' and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

I'm so proud right now, Daisy went into her crate without a fuss and passed out. Usually she'll squeal for a few minutes before giving into the temptation of her chew toys, or sleep, you know how babies are when it comes to sleep, they deny that it exists for as long as they possibly can before succumbing to it. lol

Sorraia- Of course, she's been everywhere I can take her experiencing as much as possible since I brought her home, she's even had a roll in some loose hay, walked across pallets, and had a few grabby/squealing children pet on her. I've seen what a lack of exposure does to an animal and I'd rather not deal with that. I knew someone with a small dog that had only been trained to sit in one room, if you moved any where else it was like her mind was wiped clean, and loud noises were avoided at their house because it would set the dog off on a spree of barking and defensive behavior.
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Offline Dragonfly

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 04:13:34 PM »
I completely agree with socialization too, I am glad that's already starting.. I had some issues with Diver and socialization with people.  I didn't do enough and now he's a bit wary with strangers (except kids, he loves kids) he's never bitten anyone but he does approach with hackles raised and will growl if someone attempts to pet him to quickly.

He is also a bit dominant with dominant type dogs, particularly shepherds and Pitt mixes. Though he was attacked and bitten pretty badly by a pit/shepherd mix when he was two months old. The dog that bit him was/is very dog reactive and has at this point bitten a few dogs completely out of the blue. Including a dog in his own family.
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 06:20:13 PM »
I completely agree with socialization too, I am glad that's already starting.. I had some issues with Diver and socialization with people.  I didn't do enough and now he's a bit wary with strangers (except kids, he loves kids) he's never bitten anyone but he does approach with hackles raised and will growl if someone attempts to pet him to quickly.

He is also a bit dominant with dominant type dogs, particularly shepherds and Pitt mixes. Though he was attacked and bitten pretty badly by a pit/shepherd mix when he was two months old. The dog that bit him was/is very dog reactive and has at this point bitten a few dogs completely out of the blue. Including a dog in his own family.

It probably wasn't as out of the blue as his owners think, dogs can give very subtle hints that they're upset/agrivated, sometimes they're so small that other dogs and owners may not notice them, or they may think that they are insignificant.

I've seen dogs start all out fighting and their owners were oblivious to the reason, the dogs were slightly tense around each other the entire time they were near, a lip twitch here and there, throw in a few flashes of the whites of the eyes and one wrong look set them off. Canine body language is a useful thing to know for any dog owner, especially a pit bull or pit bull mix owner; pit bulls are notorious for subtle body language that can quickly become very faint to nonexistent, a trait that makes them best suited for experienced dog owners.

Shepherds are known for neurological issues, happens with a lot of popular dog breeds once BYBs get a hold of them and some poor breeders simply don't temperament test making many of them prone to aggression problems, similar to labradors, goldens, dobermans, and rottweilers. I really wish the U.S. had stricter laws regarding the alteration of dogs unfit to be bred.

I find it amusing that Diver loves kids, a lot of dogs aren't fond of them. My dog has had the roughest treatment from some very unruly kids in the family and I swear she can tell which kids are relatives and which aren't because she's predisposed to bite my cousins (she doesn't draw blood), yet she loves kids that run up to her on the street. ::)
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 01:04:21 PM »
Pictures of the brat:

She fell asleep while I was massaging her belly, I'm happy that her belly is getting a bit bigger, but her loins are still sunken in:

Chewing on her toy, pretty durable things as my Mutt has been playing with them as well, usually toys are demolished within an hour, but these have survived:

Almost always sleeps on top of me, in one way or another:

Her attention span is slowly but surely improving, she now sits with a decent degree of accuracy if I have a piece of kibble or a syringe of formula. Sadly, her snappiness still has a ways to go, she wont bite outright, but if she's trying to eat something she shouldn't and I attempt to take it away from her it quickly turns into an unpleasant ordeal.

I've worked with her so that she'll allow me to stroke her muzzle all over and open her jaws, touch her teeth, tongue, etc, but she's still inclined to bite if I try to take trash and other inappropriate objects from her. She's learning to drop her toys with a bit of encouragement, so she's not possessive over objects she's allowed to chew on, just random bits of trash she's found. Any tips?
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Offline eyohkay

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2011, 04:54:35 PM »
At work, it's not uncommon for us to have a dog not able to go into a play group on any given day (just depending on which dogs are there for the day), so singles are often taken into one of the playrooms or back hallways and we toss around a tennis ball for a bit.  We're not allowed to play tug-o-war games with any of the dogs and aren't allowed to grab for the balls while they're in their mouths. 

We use string cheese sticks as our high value food reward, and so we simply teach the dog to trade with us.  If they drop the ball (or toy or random piece of fuzz they found on the floor or whatever), they get a yummy treat.  If they're more ball driven than food driven, we keep a second ball on hand, and throw it as soon as the first is dropped.  Pair the reward up with whatever command you prefer (drop it, leave it, etc).  After 2 play sessions, I had one particularly difficult puppy practically throwing the ball in my lap when she brought it back for cheese.

Since her getting into things is likely sporadic and difficult to predict, work on teaching the drop/leave it command with her favorite toy, and then just make sure you have something yummy to reward her with when you have to take something away.  Willingly giving up her object has to be associated with something positive.  You want her to think "if I give this up, I'll get a reward!" and not "I need to stop her from taking this away.".

Just my two cents. (;

Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 09:44:35 PM »
Huh, I've used the trade method with several dogs now, including my current dog, I just hadn't thought it would work on a pup her age. Thank you, it shouldn't be to difficult to put into action, I always carry a pocket of kibble with me just in case, so all the tools are always on hand. :)

I can't wait for her milk teeth to be gone, the little needles are cutting up my hands even with her rising awareness of her mouth and the lack of attention that occurs once she's made contact with skin. I guess that's natures way of encouraging momma dogs to wean their young. ::)
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Offline HowlsOfAngels

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 08:41:53 PM »
Daisy is doing fabulous. She's less nippy and I've already traded many bits of kibble for inappropriate toys (those geared toward kitties) and garbage. She asked to go outside for the first time today, I'm so excited! She relieved herself and rushed back into the house to play. ;D

Today was very busy, we went with a local rescue for a vet trip. It's a very respectable equine rescue that I aid on occasion, I've known them since before they started their rescue. Daisy stayed in the back seat with the doors open playing with the girls, which range from one year younger to three years younger than me, or in her crate in the bed of their pick up. I didn't want to leave her home alone for too long, we were on the road or at the clinic from 11 am to 6 pm. She and I both enjoyed the trip and I'll be interning at the clinic this summer.
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Offline eyohkay

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Re: Puppy Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 11:42:26 PM »
Daisy is doing fabulous. She's less nippy and I've already traded many bits of kibble for inappropriate toys (those geared toward kitties) and garbage.

Yay!  So glad to hear that it's working!