Analyze my rat!

[wookiemouse]

I have a hooded girl (Po) who is behaving quite odd, I was hoping someone could chime in on what's going on in her little head!

Some history - we adopted Po about 6 months ago without knowing her background.  She was extremely antisocial with the other 3 girls in the cage (but a sweetie to humans), about 2 weeks after we got her she stopped coming out of one of the play houses completely and overnight, we saw this massive rat's nest - and removed a VERY pregnant rat!  She gave birth to 9 healthy babies, 8 girls and one boy.  We adopted a number of them out and kept the rest, since we had plenty of room for them.

We fell in love with the little boy and had him neutered at 4 months old and returned him to the cage to live with his momma Po and sisters after the 14 day wait, like the vet advised.

Now one of the sisters, Stevie, is obviously pregnant.  We contacted the vet, who said the neuter was successful but that this could possibly happen ONCE.  Ugh.  Gotta love those "possibilities."    Anyways, Stevie is fine with the rest of the girls, but it's her momma Po that is flipping out!  She's secured the same play house she built a nest in before and spends pretty much the entire night carrying litter up to the house, she brought 2 bowls of food in there, and shredded 3 hammocks (they're in there as well).  The nest is MASSIVE.  She doesn't seem to spend a lot of time in there tho, and Stevie isn't all that interested either.  It's just a giant empty rat nest.

Anyone have thoughts on Po's behavior?  I'm assuming she senses Stevie's pregnancy, I don't know if she's building a nest FOR Stevie, or if it's a false pregancy thing with Po?  Or something else entirely?  She's usually not a hoarder or nest builder, the only other time we've ever seen her do this is when she was very pregnant (and she is NOT now).

[*Kat*]

When was he introed in with them after his neuter, she could be pregnant.

[LaurenE]

When was he introed in with them after his neuter, she could be pregnant.

That was exactly my first thought also.  If one of the females was able to get pregnant, no reason she couldn't either.  Pregnancies aren't always visibly obvious, even during the last few days.  I would strongly suggest moving both Stevie and Po into their own seperate maternity bins right away.  Stevie needs to be in one anyway and it really sounds like Po might end up making use of hers also.  Worse case scenario is that Po is not, in fact, pregnant and after the "pregnancy watch" is over can be moved back into the main cage with her kiddos.

[wookiemouse]

We moved the boy back in exactly 4 weeks ago yesterday.  None of the others (there are 9 girls total) seem to be showing at all, and Po is still a skinny little thing.  When she was pregnant before, she built that nest and wouldn't leave it except for water.  This time, she won't go in it unless she's adding to it.  She sleeps in a hammock with her girls instead.

I will keep an eye on Po tho, we are prepping Stevie's cage and are planning on moving her in this weekend.

[*Kat*]

If you think she looks pregnant then it could be anytime.   Rats are pregnant for 3 weeks, so you are saying she got pregnant about 2.5 weeks ago, almost 3 weeks, so at least 3 weeks after his neuter?   Is the vet willing to check his neuter?   Are you sure stevie doesn't have another issue going on rather than pregnancy?   Has a vet checked her?

[wookiemouse]

I have no idea the date she got pregnant - the boy has been in there for 4 weeks, so it could be 2.5 weeks ago, it could be last week.  I didn't actually see the "event" (ahem) occur.  She's not all that big, but her middle is definitely more pronounced than the others in the cage and has been progressively getting larger.  I have had a rat with an abdominal tumor in the past, and Stevie looks more like Po did when she was pregnant, not the rat with the tumor.

[*Kat*]

If she just got pregnant last week you would not see it yet.   You're not going to see a pregnancy in a rat until really near to the end of the pregnancy.   Can your vet check his spay and check her over?

[lilspaz68]

OK trying to get this straight.

Boy was neutered 6 weeks ago, put back in with girls after 2 week wait (4 weeks ago).

Daughter is possibly pregnant.

Po is acting like she's pregnant (she could be but she also may only have a tiny litter inside of her)

My suggestions are;

1) tell us what Boy's testicles look like?  At 6 weeks post-neuter they should be al shrivelled up and just look like fat pads on fat girls if that.  If they are still looking full then the neuter was unsuccessful...remove boy ASAP.

2) If you have a digital scale, start weighing both girls at the same time each day and recording it.  We can help you determine pregnancy from this.  How old are Po and her daughter?  If you don't have a digi scale, I would advise getting one.

[wookiemouse]

1.  The boy (Theo) is flat and furry in that area.  He has a small abcess right above the scrotum area tho (vet said it was fine and let it be). 

2.  I will start weighing the 2 - I don't know Po's age, she was a rescue when we got her.  She seemed very small, maybe 6-8 weeks old?  She's still small tho so she may be older than what we thought.  Her daughter Stevie was born on April 26th, so almost 5 months old now. 

Po's starting weight - 291g
Stevie's starting weight - 370g (both girls are roughly the same length and body type, I think I can safely assume Stevie has babies)

What sort of weight gain with Po should I be on the lookout for?  #g/per day?

[*Kat*]

At this point you can separate out the boy, watch all the girls for 3 weeks and if after that time they have not had babies then it is safe to assume they are not pregnant.   Do you know how to tell if the girls are in heat?   This will also remove them from pregnancy watch.   Weight at that age is hard to tell by since weight does fluctuate during heat cycles, and they are growing rapidly at that age.   Even weight from morning to evening can normally change greatly and not be pregnancy.   Also different rats have different healthy/ideal weights so comparing one to another tells us nothing.   Until the very end of pregnancy it is very hard to tell if a female is pregnant and even then it can seem questionable.   Can you take some pictures of her from different angles and post them?   

[LaurenE]

1.  The boy (Theo) is flat and furry in that area.  He has a small abcess right above the scrotum area tho (vet said it was fine and let it be). 

2.  I will start weighing the 2 - I don't know Po's age, she was a rescue when we got her.  She seemed very small, maybe 6-8 weeks old?  She's still small tho so she may be older than what we thought.  Her daughter Stevie was born on April 26th, so almost 5 months old now. 

Po's starting weight - 291g
Stevie's starting weight - 370g (both girls are roughly the same length and body type, I think I can safely assume Stevie has babies)

What sort of weight gain with Po should I be on the lookout for?  #g/per day?

Neuter abcesses are not uncommon, but thats a bit surprising that the vet said it would be fine and not to do anything for it.  Abcesses in that area can become quite serious and extremely painful, and even if it drains and seems to close on its own, it very likely hasn't healed completely and will chronically recur.  That is also quite a painful place for an abcess o.O.

If Po was in fact really only 6-8 weeks when you adopted her, that is extremely young to be pregnant (as I'm sure you already know).  Personally I think its more likely she was a bit older, just tiny.  She gave birth 2 weeks after you brought her home, correct?  This would have meant she conceived at only 5 to 7 weeks old, which is possible of course, but honestly not very common. 

I'm assuming the "starting" weights you just gave are from this morning?  The 80g difference in weight between Po and Stevie really could be due to numerous things and doesn't guarantee that either definitely is or is not pregnant.

[wookiemouse]

Well, it's been a week since we moved Stevie to a maternity cage - no babies.  I weighed both of them today.  Po is much less than she was initially - 268g - and Stevie is about 8g less as well, so I'm assuming neither is pregnant?  I'm going to take her to the vet, I do have some pudgy girls but Stevie's shape is so much different.  My pudgy girls basically have no neck and progressively get wider.  Stevie is a skinny rat until midway, then it looks like she's carrying around a tennis ball.  If it's not pregnancy, is it likely a tumor?  Or is there something else?  She's eating and drinking fine.