Author Topic: Persistant cat UTI  (Read 12513 times)

Offline Caresmom5

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Persistant cat UTI
« on: January 21, 2013, 02:12:54 PM »
So Moops has been having a persistant UTI. He pees blood, urinates frequently. His first one months ago cleared up on Amox. But this recent one has gone through 2 rounds of Clavamox and though it gets better, it doesn't go away and just gets worse again. He was tested twice and they didnt find any crystals. He is still peeing, so isnt blocked. What is the suggested next step? I feel so bad for him. He even peed blood in his food bowl! And he NEVER goes outside the litter boxes. Is there a different med that we should be trying now? The doctor said we could try a 3rd round of clavomox...but that doesnt seem right to me. It's been going on for so long now.  He is fed dry Wellness. But for the past month or so since we've been dealing with the UTI, I soak the food till its full of water. They like it that way anyway. I figure the extra water can only help. Thanks for any suggestions.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline RattusNorvegicus

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 03:53:38 PM »
I don't really know anything about cats so don't really know what meds are can and can't but if it cleared up on the Clavamox the first couple times, I wonder if a longer course of Clav or maybe even another antibiotic would be a good idea? What about a urine culture?

Could it be chronic cystitis? Has an anti-inflammatory been tried?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 03:56:19 PM by RattusNorvegicus »

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 06:17:25 PM »
Could it be chronic cystitis? Has an anti-inflammatory been tried?

This would be my thought.  Talk to your vet about that.  If they're not finding crystals (and do they check for bacteria?), it may be that the first UTI causes inflammation in the bladder that just won't go away.  It becomes sort of a vicious circle, and antibiotics don't clear it up because it's a physical problem, and not a bacterial one.  You can use Metacam in cats, if you do so very carefully.  When my vet wanted to prescribe it for my cat, I did a lot of research.  There were some cats who have had serious side effects from it, including kidney and liver failure.  So, I went with the smallest possible dose.  What that means is that instead of giving the .5 mL's that my doctor recommended, I gave her literally ONE drop in some tuna juice.  She slurped it right up, and within hours, she was back to normal.  Cats and anti-inflammatory meds are a tricky business, so approach with caution, but it can also be a life-saver for him.

Offline RattusNorvegicus

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 07:27:40 PM »
How do cats handle steroids? That seems like it'd be a better route to treat inflammation if Moops is peeing blood.

When ruling out chronic cystitis my vet did have me give Eddy Metacam, but the fact that it interferes with blood clotting made me wonder how we would know if it was helping if judging by the hematuria.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 08:26:49 PM »
Too many steroids can cause issues in cats, and I don't know for sure that it will cure the issue.  Isis was on steroids before she got her chronic inflammation, which is why we tried the metacam.

Offline RattusNorvegicus

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 02:45:36 AM »
I wonder, how were crystals ruled out by the way? Some cats don't do well on dry food...for now I would soak the wellness in water before feeding just to flush everything out.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 09:08:19 AM »
I gave them a urine sample and they said there was blood and bacteria but no crystals. I have been soaking the dry wellness in water since he started having issues...I figured it can't hurt. Canned food is a bit expensive for me right now as my income has recently taken a HUGE hit. I called the vet back and they said the next step will be getting an x-ray to see if he has stones. They didn't seem to want to address the possability of cystitis when I brought it up, but I don't really know anything about it and didn't push the issue after he dismissed it.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 11:37:13 AM »
Many vets don't seem to want to deal with cystitis as a possibility, unfortunately.  It took a LOT of convincing to get my vet to admit it might even be a possibility...

Offline forkyfork

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 10:23:54 PM »
I have the same problem with my old man cat. For the past 2 years. Its been a struggle. No crystals but he has blood and urinates outside of the box. They draw urine every time, shows infection.

I gave in and put him on royal canin urinary SO formula. It killed me to feed the crap food but its the only thing that keeps the issues at bay. I had been feeding it with good results for a year. I thought he should be sorted out by then and weaned him off the food. It wasnt even a month he was off it and we were back in with the same issue.

So now he is back on urinary SO both canned and dry and cranberry tabs called cranadin I think its for dogs. He gets 1/4 tab daily.

Other than that, you might try Orbax if bacteria is showing. Its a different antibiotic for a possible resistant strain, easy to give my cat actually will lick it off a plate he likes the flavor so much. If you do try it dose it all until the bottle is empty stopping earlier doesnt work well.

The other thing to consider is if you have super hard water switching to a filtered water. Ive heard it helps.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 09:39:49 AM »
Thank you. I also have avoided the special foods as I am 100% for the grain-free top quality foods. I do hear that the junky special urinary fomulas do tend to work though. Maybe its worth a try. Can't have him suffering with the constant infection forever if I can help it. The clavamox DOES help though...but it just wont clear it up and the infection seems to come back worse each time he finishes the clavomox...even when they increased the dose and length of treatment.
Its just so frustrating. I hate seeing him go through this for so long. I don't have the money for the xray right now, so unfortunately it has to wait til March which is the next time I will have any money (cant even pay my rent for Feb...ugh).
Is the Royal Canin So preferable to the Science Diet urinary formula the vet wanted us to go on? Not sure what the differences are. Also, is the canned food "better" for him than just totally soaking the dry food? Ive been soaking the dry Wellness til its falling apart. It absorbs tons of water and both cats really seem to enjoy it that way. Thank you all so much for all your suggestions. Nice to know we arent alone dealing with this.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Sidders

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 10:06:15 AM »
I have the same problem with my old man cat. For the past 2 years. Its been a struggle. No crystals but he has blood and urinates outside of the box. They draw urine every time, shows infection.

I gave in and put him on royal canin urinary SO formula. It killed me to feed the crap food but its the only thing that keeps the issues at bay. I had been feeding it with good results for a year. I thought he should be sorted out by then and weaned him off the food. It wasnt even a month he was off it and we were back in with the same issue.

So now he is back on urinary SO both canned and dry and cranberry tabs called cranadin I think its for dogs. He gets 1/4 tab daily.

Other than that, you might try Orbax if bacteria is showing. Its a different antibiotic for a possible resistant strain, easy to give my cat actually will lick it off a plate he likes the flavor so much. If you do try it dose it all until the bottle is empty stopping earlier doesnt work well.

The other thing to consider is if you have super hard water switching to a filtered water. Ive heard it helps.

Add me to that list too. I wanted nothing to do with the Royal Canin SO and even avoided it initially after my vet told me to put my male cat on it. My situation was very similar, rounds of Clavamox would work but very soon after the blood in his urine and frequent urination would come back. My vet never tested for crystals but they did an x-ray and while no stones were present, his bladder wall was thickened which indicated irritation from crystals.

Before shelling out the money for an x-ray, I would try the SO food first. My cats are all on the dry and get supplemented with Wellness Core wet twice a day. Everyone (my females actually started having urinary issues as well) has been problem free for 2-3 years.

I also tried this product which completely knocked out one of my female's UTI over a weekend (wanted to try something else before paying a hefty bill at the emergency vet). I just syringed some into her mouth but you can also use it as a maintenance dosage in his water. I haven't needed to use it since switching to the SO, but I always keep it on hand since it works so well. Definitely something else to maybe try with your boy until he gets better.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 10:23:20 AM »
Just looked online for the Royal Canin SO. I found it on Amazon...but wow is it pricey! Is it sold in any stores? Has anyone found the best possible price for the dry SO? Thanks!!
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Kati33

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 02:18:04 PM »
A culture would be more beneficial than just changing around antibiotics. That will identify the bacteria, tell you which antibiotic it is susceptible to and you can treat it. If the urinary issues continue, you can look into cystitis. The therapeutic foods are often considered to be "prescription" items and you have to have a note from the vet to purchase them. I know Petsmart carries both Science Diet c/d and Roycal Canin SO. Otherwise you can purchase them from your vet's office.
Kati33
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Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 02:48:33 PM »
I am just getting more and more frustrated with the vet. I called them today and said that I am now willing to give the prescription food a try. They had tried to get me to put Moops on the Science Diet prescription food over a month ago but I said I wanted to try another round of antibiotics first. So they took the message down today and they just called me back. The receptionist said they have no record of having suggested the prescription food for Moops and since he doesn't have crystals in his urine, it wouldn't help him anyways. Ugh...seriously? They tried to get me to buy it weeks ago! They are adament...they will not do ANYTHING now until I can come up with the money for an xray to see if a stone is the cause of the infection. Is this a normal plan? Should I just do nothing until the beggining of March when I can afford the xray? I feel just horrible for him. I do have a bottle each of Amox and Doxy that I keep on hand for my rats. I don't want to just go giving him antibiotics that might end up doing more harm than good though. But I also know that the infection is still there and has gotten worse within a week or so of ending the Clavamox the last 2 times. Idk what to do  :(
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 03:12:18 PM »
So 2 minutes after I wrote the last reply, the vet called me AGAIN to push for me to get the xray done right away. What don't they understand about "I have zero income...not even $1... for me and my children until March"? The lack of money was unexpected to say the least, but it's what I have to deal with for right now.
They said the xray will be $55. If it shows a stone, Moops will need surgery. If there's no stone, we need to send out a "culture and sensitivity test" to the lab...and that will cost $72. I didn't realize the last urine test wasn't a culture. They said the only info they got from the last test was that blood was present, there were no crystals, and that the bacteria was coccus.
Sorry to ask so many questions. I just dont know much about this issue and want to be sure I am doing what I can and see if the vet is doing the norm or not. Thanks so much for all the replies.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 04:09:43 PM »
If they really want you to do the x-ray, are they willing to bill you and wait until March for payment?  That might put it in perspective for them... 

Ideally, with recurring infections, the x-ray should be done, as should the C&S.  However, no money means no money, and I think sometimes vets are used to people telling them they have no money when it really means "If I spend this money on my cat, I can't get my nails done next week".  So, I'd call back and ask if they're willing to take payments once you have the money, and see how it goes.

Offline forkyfork

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 09:24:37 PM »
I forgot about the x ray. It actually saved my old man cats life. He wasnt showing any signs of congestive heart failure. His chest had 1/2 inch of fluid in the bottom  and his heart was sitting on his sternum.  :puppy_dog_eyes:

He dosent have crystals but for some reason the food helps. If your vet isnt helpful maybe its time for a second opinion.

If more than one round of the same med doesnt help a different one should be used. Its obvious it isnt the right meds for the bacteria. Orbax is a good one but it isnt cheap.

Offline missamy

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2013, 12:55:20 AM »
Wysong's Uretic might be worth a try for any of you who struggle with kitty pee pee issues: http://www.wysong.net/products/uretic-healthy-natural-cat-food.php  It's not prescription, but is formulated for urinary problems and is a holistic food, so the ingredients are much better than prescription foods.

My 9 year old Murphy has had "pee problems" for years.  Blood in pee, going small amounts, going outside the box, but no crystals.    After much aggravation and many trips to the vet, we finally concluded that it is cystitis. I found that what keeps him free and clear of any flares is getting one can daily of wet food with a good bit of water mixed in. He loves it and he loves lapping up the food flavored water up before eating the food.  I've experimented with him and if I don't give it to him often enough or get sporadic about it, he starts having pee problems again.  I think that it is very important to make sure that cats prone to urinary probelms are getting enough moisture in their diet.  For Murphy, the moisture in the wet food alone isn't enough, I have to add water. 

The prescription foods never helped my Murph, and I didn't come across the Wysong Uretic until after I already found the solution to his problem so I can't attest to how well it works, but it might be worth looking into for anyone who dislikes the prescription foods. 
I am only one, but I am still one.  I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.  - Edward Everett Hale

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 10:24:13 AM »
Thought I'd post an update. I've been so wrapped up in Dreamy's bad URI that I have'nt updated on Moops. We did the xray and it didnt show anything abnormal. So they did the culture and sensitivity test, which showed NO bacteria! Not at all what I was expecting. The last test they did showed bacteria, along with a ton of blood. But they say no bacteria, no crystals, nothing on the xray. He just pees like every few minutes all day and night...and the pee looks very bloody (but not every time). He is also peeing in places he shouldnt. He's obviously uncomfortable. Vet said theres nothing else they can do but have me buy the prescription food from them. As we were about to hang up the phone after a pretty lengthy call, he adds "oh, well, we could put him under and put a camera up him and look for tumors...but I wouldnt recommend that because if we found something it would be very bad. So lets try the food". I would think it would be worthwhile to go in and look around...right? Wouldnt early detection be better than waiting? I could be wrong...I really don't know. Just wanted to see if anyone has any opinion. By the way...I did get the Wysong food and will give it a try before the prescription food.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 11:36:44 AM »
Have you tried pain meds at all to see if you can break the cycle?  Especially if there is no bacteria and no crystals... 

And isn't this the same vet who said just a couple weeks ago that the food wouldn't help if it wasn't crystals?  I'm confused.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 11:57:07 AM »
Sure is! I called him out on that too. First, they tried to push the food on me before even doing the tests, then said "oh no, we wouldnt give him the prescription food without him having crystals". Now hes back to pushing the food! I REALLY have not been happy with them at all.
They wont give him any more meds...just the food. What meds could I try? Would Meloxicam be one to try by any chance? (I happen to have that on hand).
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »
If you have meloxicam, you can try that.  You have to be really careful with it.  With Isis, I literally put one drop in some tuna juice, and that was all it took.  If you look up dosages, they're all higher, but NSAIDS and cats don't do too awfully well together, and there is a ton of anecdotal evidence about the higher doses causing kidney failure, which is why I did the one drop only.  But, it worked!  And we've had absolutely no issues with her since.  The results were nearly immediate, so you'll know if it works fairly quickly.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 12:45:49 PM »
I have 15mg tablets. How much would I give?
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 01:52:04 PM »
Hm.  That could be tougher.  Lemme see if I can figure it out.  I'm used to dealing with the liquid.

ETA:  How much does he weigh?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 01:57:31 PM by Marybelle »

Offline Kati33

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2013, 02:16:02 PM »
Kati33
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Some dogs, reptiles and a husband...
Past Rats: Jag, Otter, Wolf, Frog, Bear, Moose, Emu as in Komodo Dragon, Squirrel, Turtle, Elephant, Ox, Opossum, Octopus, Okapi, Cassowary, Goose, Squid, Coati, Flamingo, Zebu, Bo(vine)

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 02:23:06 PM »
10 lbs
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2013, 02:30:21 PM »
I'm not certain it'll be possible to get an appropriately small dose with the pills...  We're talking around 1mg or so.

Offline Caresmom5

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2013, 02:38:06 PM »
Maybe I can crush and mix with water? If it mixes well, I could then get an accurate dose with a syringe.
Mommy to: 5 awesome human kids, 5 ratties: Biscotti, Hiram, Moses, Ainslie & Gracie, 1 angel-rattie: RIP sweet Dreamy, and 2 cats: Mini & Moops.

Offline Marybelle

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2013, 02:50:05 PM »
Maybe I can crush and mix with water? If it mixes well, I could then get an accurate dose with a syringe.

You could try it, for sure.

Offline KellyNZoo

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 09:20:41 AM »
I may have missed the specifics, but is kitty on wet or dry food?

Dry food is known to cause these issues.. the cats are constantly dehydrated (and hence why they drink water) and it slowly kills their organs. So sad. :(

My heart cat had these issues, on dry. Other than SO no regular dry would help. I started to read more and more, because honestly, he was getting worse in other ways thanks to the SO! My reading taught me that dry food is the WORST thing for cats with UTI issues, and wet was much better. So we went with a 100% wet diet, and sometimes mixed water in too. He instantly lost a ton of weight and started to romp like a kitten again! We stayed on SO for another 6mths so I could slowly wean him to regular canned food.

Then, because once I get hooked on something - I can't stop, I learned that a raw diet was even better than canned for UTI kitties! Once on canned, Zaq only got one UTI before I started switching to raw. Took me 8mths of slowly transiitioning him (he was 13 when we started!) but eventually he was on 100% raw meat and doing SO MUCH BETTER! He hadn't had a UTI since the switch (he has since passed from his injection sarcoma but was healthy until then) - that was over 4yrs of no UTIs!! He had no tartar on his teeth anymore, he never stunk us out of the apartment with his poops anymore, he got to a good weight (went from over 20lbs to 12!) and would run about like a kitten again. :) :heart:

Offline forkyfork

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Re: Persistant cat UTI
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2013, 10:29:19 PM »
I may have missed the specifics, but is kitty on wet or dry food?

Dry food is known to cause these issues.. the cats are constantly dehydrated (and hence why they drink water) and it slowly kills their organs. So sad. :(

My heart cat had these issues, on dry. Other than SO no regular dry would help. I started to read more and more, because honestly, he was getting worse in other ways thanks to the SO! My reading taught me that dry food is the WORST thing for cats with UTI issues, and wet was much better. So we went with a 100% wet diet, and sometimes mixed water in too. He instantly lost a ton of weight and started to romp like a kitten again! We stayed on SO for another 6mths so I could slowly wean him to regular canned food.

Then, because once I get hooked on something - I can't stop, I learned that a raw diet was even better than canned for UTI kitties! Once on canned, Zaq only got one UTI before I started switching to raw. Took me 8mths of slowly transiitioning him (he was 13 when we started!) but eventually he was on 100% raw meat and doing SO MUCH BETTER! He hadn't had a UTI since the switch (he has since passed from his injection sarcoma but was healthy until then) - that was over 4yrs of no UTIs!! He had no tartar on his teeth anymore, he never stunk us out of the apartment with his poops anymore, he got to a good weight (went from over 20lbs to 12!) and would run about like a kitten again. :) :heart:

I want to switch my UTI kitty to raw or even cooked meat but he vomits within 5 minutes of having a sliver of anything raw or cooked even if there is no seasoning or salt. I just dont understand how canned food would be any different other than being processed to death.