Just got some Bass pans

[BigBen]

I decided to switch from fleece to Bass pans, because my mother went into assisted living recently, and I no longer have access to rat-friendly laundry machines (I can manage to hand-wash the hammocks, but not the rest of it).  Since Bass's stainless steel pans are so much more expensive than the galvanized steel, I settled for the cheaper option, which I was intending to spray-paint.

Interestingly, there is no store in the area that carries Rustolem Painter's Touch Toy Safe paint.  A very helpful clerk at Home Depot (they carry Painter's Touch, but don't stock the Toy Safe version) called around to all the local stores and sent me over to an artists' supply shop that thought they might have some.  Turns out they don't, and they can't order it for me, either, because they carry Krylon, not Rustoleum.  And apparently, Rustoleum is the only brand that sells paint that is guaranteed to be non-toxic.

Fortunately, the manager of the art-supply place was able to give me the number of a couple of local businesses that do powder-coating, and the cost turns out to be far more reasonable than I had expected.  It's more expensive than the cost of a couple of cans of spray paint, of course, but the total cost of the pans plus the powder coating is still over a hundred dollars less than what stainless steel pans would have cost me, so I feel I've come out ahead.  I dropped the pans off yesterday, and I will be able to pick them up after work tomorrow--no fuss, no muss, and best of all, no waiting time, since powder coat cures in the oven and doesn't release volatiles once it has cooled down.  So I will be able to put the pans in the cage immediately, without having to wait two weeks.  Plus, I got to pick a custom color for no extra charge!

So the pans cost about $100--I got three-inch deep pans for the levels, and 2-1/2 inch pans for the shelves--and the cost of the powder-coating is $50.  (It was going to be more, but the guy lowered the price once he saw the pans.  They were less complicated to handle than I had made it sound over the phone, apparently.)  All in all, I consider it a good deal, because finding a place to paint the pans would have been a hassle, to say nothing of trying to find a place where I could safely put them while the volatiles were out-gassing--one of the challenges of  a studio apartment.  And not to mention the extra time and hassle it would have taken to get Home Depot to order the Toy Safe paint specially.  The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the extra cost is well worth the time and hassle saved in this case.

So I thought I'd let folks know that powder-coating might be a more-economical option than we had been thinking.  It's also good to know that Rustoleum is pretty much the only option for child- and pet-safe paint, when going that route.

[Michael C]

I hope the change in circumstances is beneficial for your mom.

It sounds like you've had a bit of an adventure! So many people have complained about the price of powder coating that I don't know that I would have considered it a viable option. That's great, though! What color did you pick? Are you going back to aspen or are you using a different substrate? Ugh, hand-washing fleece liners? Gracias, pero no, gracias.

The timing of this post is rather perfect for me. I purchase a used single a few months ago and it came with a painted metal pan. It was starting to chip a little around the edges and the paint looked a little 'affected' in the corner that I'm imagining her rats used for their business. I decided to strip it an repaint it.

During cage cleaning on Thursday, I split the double-wide apart to turn it back to a single (it's nice to have that interior wall back for hammock decorating) and now the other single sits empty next to it while I refinish the base pan. I picked up a product called Aircraft Remover to strip the paint. It's made by Rustoleum and it was in the auto department of Home Depot. It's a thin,clear gel that you brush on the painted surface. You let it sit for 5-10 minutes and the paint just bubbles off. I took a piece of cardboard and simply wiped the bubbled paint away. While it should be used in a well ventilated area, the fumes actually weren't that bad. If little flecks of the gel get on your skin, it does burn and needs to be washed immediately. Also, it seemed to eat through the thin vinyl gloves I was wearing. But it worked amazingly well on the paint! It also removes powder coating. I'm just about to head back to work to finish stripping the bottom of the pan.

I hadn't purchased paint yet so I'm really glad that I saw your post! Thanks for informing us of your experiences and perhaps there will be some photos added to this or the Critter Nation thread soon? 

[BigBen]

Mom is very happy at the new place (I really don't know what to call it; it's not a nursing home, "institution" gives the wrong impression, "assisted-living home" seems too long-winded, and so on), which makes my sister and me very happy, as well.  Mom is not exactly senile, but she's not as sharp as she used to be and her physical ability to care for herself has dwindled, so we are glad to have competent, caring people looking out for her--and so is Mom, fortunately!

I'm glad you found the post helpful; that's why I posted it.  I know fifty dollars is fifty dollars, but at least it's within the realm of possibility.  I was expecting them to charge something more like four times that.  But since I was having trouble locating the right Rustoleum, I didn't think it would hurt to explore the alternative.  They had a lovely dark gray/charcoal color that is not too far from the color of the cage and the plastic shelf liners (I don't care about an exact match)--and they had the powder on hand, or I would have picked something else.  Pics for sure.  No aspen for me, though; I've become a firm fan of Eco-bedding.

That must be powerful stripper if it will remove powder-coat--so be very careful about the fumes.  Also be careful about coming into contact with it--I used to do a lot of stripping when my ex and I were busy fixing up houses, and I think I may now be seeing effects (*cough*) thirty-five (*cough*) years later.  These days I am an awful lot more careful!  I know what you mean about the gloves, however, and I found that methylene chloride straight out of the can was a lot less painful on the hands than stripper that had been reacting with paint.

Good luck with re-finishing your pan.  I'd love to know if powder-coating is a workable alternative for you too, or if my experience was just a fluke!

[ILoveMyRatties]

Have you thought about the Home Depot cement mixing tubs for your DCN? It doesn't look as sharp than the Bass pans but it is only $13 and you can get it in store. Also the Bass pans are not deep enough to keep the litter in. The plastic tubs are easier to clean and are 7 inches deep. I love mine and so do my rats as they can really play and dig around (I use Eco Bedding) and nothing gets on my floor.

[Vonda Z]

I've never heard the Toy-Safe version mentioned before. When I do a search for Rustoleum Painter's Touch Toy Safe paint, I only get links to UK stores. Even the Rustoleum website takes you to a map of the UK. So I wonder if this product is only available overseas. I also notice that this is a brush applied paint, not a spray paint.

[Vonda Z]

I had looked into paints once before, and if a safe brush-on paint is what anyone is looking for, ECOS Paints Pet-Safe Paint may be an option worth considering. They also sell a pet-safe primer - if you need to sand the rust from an older cage before painting, then you should use a primer. They make a paint for bird cages and birds are highly sensitive to toxins - so much so that bird people do not even recommend the Rustoleum Painter's Touch paints for bird cages. So if this paint is safe for hookbills, then I would guess it would be safe for rats.

http://www.ecospaints.net/complete-product-list/pet-paints/

They also have almost every color imaginable.

[BigBen]

I am really pleased how well the pans look in place!  I guessed at the color, and it turned out to be a really good match for the cage.

Here are some pics.  I'm sorry about the quality, but the camera in my new phone is much crappier than the one in my old phone.  The phone in my tablet isn't any better, either.

I set them up in the hallway to give you a good look


Here is the upper level:


A view of both levels:


The ratties seem to approve.  But I used up all my Eco-bedding.  I'll have to put in an emergency order, lol!

[Michael C]

They look fantastic!

I've got a few questions about Eco Bedding. Are you purchasing the 4.5 lb. bags or the big 10 lb. box? Approximately how much would you estimate is being used in each one of the full-sized pans (how long does a bag or box last)? Pet360 is the best price I found being that they ship for free on orders over $49. Is there a better source?

[Kitsch Slapped]

I had no idea you could get bass pans for the shelves! Is that new? I need to look into getting some. They look great!!!

[BigBen]

I had no idea you could get bass pans for the shelves! Is that new? I need to look into getting some. They look great!!!

I don't know how long they've been available, but they were there when I checked out the site.  I got three-inch sides on the main levels and two-and-a-half inch sides for the shelf pans, instead of three-inch.  I figure on the shelves the extra height isn't so important, and that the slightly lower height would be a little easier to get over onto the ramp.

P.S.--The color turned out to be such a good match to the color Midwest uses, that people might like to know what it was.  The company I went to uses Tiger Drylac powder, and the color number is RAL 7043.  If it's not a perfect match, it sure comes awfully close!

[BigBen]

They look fantastic!

I've got a few questions about Eco Bedding. Are you purchasing the 4.5 lb. bags or the big 10 lb. box? Approximately how much would you estimate is being used in each one of the full-sized pans (how long does a bag or box last)? Pet360 is the best price I found being that they ship for free on orders over $49. Is there a better source?

I had to look it up, but I got a 4.5 lb. bag for $25 from Amazon--actually it turned out to be a third-party sale.  It was the best deal I could find at the time, so thanks for the tip about Pet360.  I had between a third of a bag and half a bag left and used it all, in the two big trays and the two shelf trays.  Eco-bedding does expand a lot once you spread it out, but it still seems a bit skimpy--although the boys seem quite happy with the amount.

I wish the local pet suppliers would stock Eco-bedding, but the only place where I ever saw it had bought the bag by mistake and weren't interested in carrying it regularly.  A pity, because I'd have become a faithful customer, even though they are a bit out of the way for me.  The pet supply store that I drive past regularly was unable to get Eco-bedding from their wholesaler for some reason, so I made do with Carefresh Crinkles until they stopped being able to get it in decent colors (I hate the shocking pink).  I notice that they have since given up stocking it altogether.

[BigBen]

@Michael C:  I have done some browsing and find that, while the Pet360 price is significantly better than the Amazon price on my last order of Eco-bedding, it is possible to do better.  PetFoodDirect charges slightly less than Pet360, which I don't understand, since I believe they are the same company.  But the best deal I've found so far is from Animal World Network, which is offering 10 lb bags for about 12% lower than the other two.  Animal World Network is also offering a 30 lb bag of Eco-bedding that works out to a little over two-thirds the price per pound of the 10 lb bag.

I haven't taken shipping into account for any of these, however, and shipping prices can add significantly to the total cost of an item, I've found.

[gramma2jaakk]

Have you thought about the Home Depot cement mixing tubs for your DCN? It doesn't look as sharp than the Bass pans but it is only $13 and you can get it in store. Also the Bass pans are not deep enough to keep the litter in. The plastic tubs are easier to clean and are 7 inches deep. I love mine and so do my rats as they can really play and dig around (I use Eco Bedding) and nothing gets on my floor.

I just saw this posting today and saw your comment about the cement mixing tubs.  I showed this to my husband, we went to Home Depots website, and we both agreed the mixing tubs would be great for putting into the CN we have for our girls.  So off to HD I go!  I got the large tub, got it home, and it does not fit in my CN.  It is too big!  And the other size is way too small.  I didn't think there would be a size difference between the single CN and a DCN?  Did you have to modify the cement mixing tub to fit into your DCN?

[Michael C]

It is too big!  And the other size is way too small.  I didn't think there would be a size difference between the single CN and a DCN?  Did you have to modify the cement mixing tub to fit into your DCN?

Yeah, from what I've read, the tubs are just slightly too wide. I think people are shaving a little bit off of the lip on one side of the tub to make it fit. I believe a standard utility knife would do the trick.

[Michael C]

But the best deal I've found so far is from Animal World Network, which is offering 10 lb bags for about 12% lower than the other two.  Animal World Network is also offering a 30 lb bag of Eco-bedding that works out to a little over two-thirds the price per pound of the 10 lb bag.

I haven't taken shipping into account for any of these, however, and shipping prices can add significantly to the total cost of an item, I've found.

For the quantity you'll be using, the 30lb bag seems the most sensible (I wonder how big that package is!).

I've been looking at a couple of UK companies that sell shredded cardboard as animal bedding. I'm not having much luck in locating any U.S. companies but I'm wondering if I could simply call around to some local shredding services and have them shred a bunch of cardboard for me if I supplied the cardboard. I'd want to test to see exactly how dust free it is, however. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be as good a eco bedding.

[gramma2jaakk]

It is too big!  And the other size is way too small.  I didn't think there would be a size difference between the single CN and a DCN?  Did you have to modify the cement mixing tub to fit into your DCN?

Yeah, from what I've read, the tubs are just slightly too wide. I think people are shaving a little bit off of the lip on one side of the tub to make it fit. I believe a standard utility knife would do the trick.

I didn't want to do that much modification.  This tub is almost 2 inches too wide!  My husband things/wonders if the dimensions given are inside measurements and not outside measurements.  Oh well!  Guess I take it back to HD and stick with my bass pan.  I've had this bass pan for a few years but never got it powder coated.  I found some spray paint to cover it but I forgot to prime it...   Needless to say, things stuck to it and some of the paint came off. 

[ILoveMyRatties]

Have you thought about the Home Depot cement mixing tubs for your DCN? It doesn't look as sharp than the Bass pans but it is only $13 and you can get it in store. Also the Bass pans are not deep enough to keep the litter in. The plastic tubs are easier to clean and are 7 inches deep. I love mine and so do my rats as they can really play and dig around (I use Eco Bedding) and nothing gets on my floor.

I just saw this posting today and saw your comment about the cement mixing tubs.  I showed this to my husband, we went to Home Depots website, and we both agreed the mixing tubs would be great for putting into the CN we have for our girls.  So off to HD I go!  I got the large tub, got it home, and it does not fit in my CN.  It is too big!  And the other size is way too small.  I didn't think there would be a size difference between the single CN and a DCN?  Did you have to modify the cement mixing tub to fit into your DCN?

Just take a little bit out of both the smallest sides like in the pic. The top tub is intact, the bottom tub is trimmed, you can see the difference if you look at the holes.

[Michael C]

This tub is almost 2 inches too wide!  My husband things/wonders if the dimensions given are inside measurements and not outside measurements.  Oh well!  Guess I take it back to HD and stick with my bass pan.  I've had this bass pan for a few years but never got it powder coated.  I found some spray paint to cover it but I forgot to prime it...   Needless to say, things stuck to it and some of the paint came off.

Two inches! That's no good! I wonder if they're a different size than they used to be  Beanjelly describes it as a "tight fit but the doors do shut.  When I take the tub in and out, I have to put it in 'diagonally' at first (one side lower than the other--left to right, not front to back), then push the higher side down."

This certainly doesn't look like it was cut down 2 inches.

Did you open the doors all of the way and take out the shelf and attempt to place the  tub in at an angle? (please forgive me for even asking this, I'm sure you tried this being that you're already experienced with a bass pan)

...and if you're feeling like you want to strip the paint off of your existing bass and start fresh, the Aircraft Remover product that I mentioned above is pretty incredible (just don't get the spray-can version. it's apparently no good).

[ILoveMyRatties]

It is less than 2 inches too wide. You need to open the doors all the way. I love my cement tubs, and so do my rats who can trully dig in them like crazies and not put any on my floor. I use big utility scissors from HD to cut the sides, you can also use a saw.

[RattieEnthusiast]

I have the cement mixing trays and have not experienced a problem with them being too big to actually fit. I have experienced some cage warping on the sides of my cage though if you do not shave the sides down because it is a little too big and you are essentially cramming it in. We have been using them for a long time now but there are some down sides with the door being more difficult to close and no easy way of cutting the corner so that the bottom is accessible from the top. Also, the sides are HIGH, way too high for my personal preference.

We are currently looking into getting bass pans so this is actually a very informative thread. Probably going to call around and see if anybody can powder coat the galvanized ones for us to where it is more affordable than the stainless steel option.

[RattieEnthusiast]

Does anyone have any experience with the stainless steel guards bass pans sells for shelves? It is a lot cheaper than getting shelf pans. Anyone have pictures of what that would look like?

[Been to the Mountaintop]

I only have two now, but back when I had more ratties and/or was fostering a litter, I didn't like the idea of the crack where the guard met the floor. That's why I got Bass pans.

[RattieEnthusiast]

I only have two now, but back when I had more ratties and/or was fostering a litter, I didn't like the idea of the crack where the guard met the floor. That's why I got Bass pans.

You're right. I think I am just going to bite the bullet and get the stainless steel bass pans.

[RattieEnthusiast]

So I ordered the stainless steel pans today. I am not sure if this was common knowledge or not but I ended up calling bass pans to see if they would do powder coating on the galvanized pans for an additional fee (to see how it compared to their prices for stainless steel). Apparently they do not do powder coating at all so I went ahead and ordered the expensive ones. They are a bit behind on orders right now - the lady I spoke to said this was the busiest time of the year for them. Even so, she told me they would ship within 6 business days. I am excited! Our boys love bedding over fleece liners.

[BigBen]

Just got an order of twenty pounds of Eco-bedding--two large boxes of it.  I don't have room in my apartment to store them, much less freeze them, lol!

[ILoveMyRatties]

Just got an order of twenty pounds of Eco-bedding--two large boxes of it.  I don't have room in my apartment to store them, much less freeze them, lol!

Where did you got it from? The cheapest Eco bedding I got was for about $52 with free shipping and it got me four 4.5lb bags.

[Michael C]

Wow! How big are those boxes?

[NorthStar]

Hello! Just commenting to help shape this great discussion a little.

I bought a DCN over a year ago on a great sale, I think it was $160 plus shipping. I forget which forum I was on but everyone was going nuts about this big sale. I haven't actually had a chance to even take the DCN out of the box because soon after I got it, I moved and have not been ready for more ratties. But I can't wait to settle into my new life and adopt a trio of boys.

So anyway, I bought the Bass pans but accidentally left them behind in the move. I was so bummed when I realized what happened. I got over the loss (and expense!) and will order more Bass pans when I am ready to set things up and bring some ratties back into my life.

I really adore the higher Bass pans (3 inch tall edges option). I liked fleece for a little while but in my humble opinion I consider loose/ litter bedding easier to maintain and fresher overall. Plus I won't have easy access to a washing machine, so already I will be dragging the millions of hammocks I have to the laundromat. I don't want the extra work of washing fleece liners too.

So it's nice to read all about fellow Bass pans lovers like me. I love the information about which paint to use should I want to paint the pans, and also how to powder-coat them! Someone said they hated the crinkle paper litter in pink, but I would seriously consider powder-coating the pans pink! Probably easy to get sick of, though. Would be sure to post the ugly pics, haha.

I am going to edit this post in a little bit to helpfully add some of the information we have in this thread to make it easy to find in one post. Will include the paint brands, the cement mixing bins tips, bedding/ litter suggestions and my own thoughts about hammocks and such. Feel free to add to things and *please do* help me to get the best information out there to help those of us who are Bass pans fans in particular and rat lovers in general.

Needless to say, many of us really really really like Critter Nations!

I apologize if this is considered thread hijacking, a great discussion was started so I wanted to jump in. Please let me know if I ought to move this post.

[NorthStar]

I can't seem to edit my post, sorry. Here's what I wanted to consolidate. I tried to note screen names to give credit to what folks suggested, I hope that's OK.  There was some great information in this thread.

Usually the cheapest source for Critter Nations: drsfostersmith.com

The Critter Nation cage pans this thread is talking about can be found at: bassequipment.com

BigBen shares that you need to get the Bass pans in stainless steel, OR you can get the galvanized steel pans that are cheaper and paint them with Rustoleum Painter's Touch Toy Safe Paint (and let the spray-paint set and become safe for your rats with a two week wait). It sounds like this kind of paint may be harder to get in the U.S. (you can find it in the U.K). Another exciting option is to powder-coat your pans, which BigBen said had come to $50.  The powder-coating paint used was Tiger Drylac Powder and a great, Critter Nation similar color is RAL 7043.  It looks very much like the cage color if you want to match the powder-coated pans to the cage.

Vonda Z. said a safe brush-on paint is ECOS Paints Pet-Safe Paint, and they also sell a primer if you need it (for older pans you have sanded first to repaint, for example).

ILoveMyRatties mentioned that another option is going to the Home Depot for their cement mixing tubs to use as cage pans, they are 7 inches deep.  It sounds like you would get the large size, Michael C. said you can cut the sides a little with a utility knife to get them to fit into the cage.

Eco-Bedding is popular and safe, you can also use Carefresh Crinkles.  Amazon.com has FiberCore Eco-Bedding, as well as Carefresh Crinkles Bedding.

I highly suggest utilizing Etsy.com and searching "rat hammocks" and "rat hammock sets" for some adorable and useful hammock sets for your rats. I never buy the hammocks and hanging cubes made with ribbon loops, rats can chew right through them and break a hammock very fast.  So I always get the hammocks with grommets!  Metal hooks are cheap on Etsy too ($1-$2 for four), or you can find metal shower hooks.

I hope all this was helpful, thanks for starting this thread BigBen. 

[BigBen]

Just got an order of twenty pounds of Eco-bedding--two large boxes of it.  I don't have room in my apartment to store them, much less freeze them, lol!

Where did you got it from? The cheapest Eco bedding I got was for about $52 with free shipping and it got me four 4.5lb bags.

I paid about $63 to Pet Food Direct, which was the best deal I could find, especially since shipping was free.  There's a company that sells thirty pounds for an even lower price per pound, but shipping from California to New York would have cost about thirty dollars more than the cost of the Eco-bedding itself.  If I remember rightly, the total order came to well over a hundred dollars.

[Alex_Belle]

If I had it to do over, I think I would have gotten those pans. I didn't know you could get them for shelves!!

[raindear]

The best price I have found for the DCN is ferret.com: http://www.ferret.com/item/critter-nation-small-animal-cage-double-unit/650232/

Petsmart has the DCN or an identical facsimile under the All Living Things brand that periodically comes on sale for a really good price: http://www.petsmart.com/supplies/cages/all-living-things-multi-level-small-animal-cage-zid36-21573/cat-36-catid-600022?var_id=36-21573&_t=pfm%3Dsearch the Memorial Day price was $160. But it is only in store, not delivered.

If like me you like the shallow DCN pans but they have been chewed, Flower Town Chinchilla: http://www.chinchilla.ca/product.php?menuID=2&catID=2&item=Cage_Accessories has shallow painted pans for the DCN. They are located in Canada, so the shipping is a bit more, but I am very happy with my metal pans and I can continue to use fleece which I prefer.

[ILoveMyRatties]

I'm thinking of getting 4 half shelves and 2 large with ramp cut stainless steel bass pans. I have 2 DCN cages. I use a Home Depot mixing tub for the lower level in both cages. With shipping it will be about $320. It is quite expensive, but what's worry me more is the 3 inches depth of the pans. Is that enough to keep the litter in? Right now, I'm using some Walmart storage boxes for the half levels, they are only $4 a piece and 6 inches deep so no litter gets throw out. It doesn't look too good though but super cheap and practical. What would you do?

[BigBen]

The three-inch Bass pans keep the bedding in, except when I take the guys out for playtime.  A clump of the Eco-bedding often sticks to their feet.  I've learned to stack them on my shoulders so that I can have two hands free for picking up each additional rat, lol!