Author Topic: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?  (Read 1785 times)

Offline Michael C

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How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« on: August 21, 2016, 05:35:08 PM »
So, I've been really pleased with the crinkled kraft paper bedding but I was at PetSmart earlier today picking up one of these fancy-schmancy thingies when I noticed this;



I want it!

...but then on the back, this;



"This product contains wood dust, a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer."

 :-\

So, I feel that I shouldn't get this but... it's green and brown. I feel like I need it.

I mean, lookit;




Offline ILoveMyRatties

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 05:50:05 PM »
Don't get it! It says it causes cancer! Plus saw dust is bad for rats as it most likely means cedar or pine!

Offline ILoveMyRatties

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 05:55:21 PM »
I would avoid going to pet stores as you can bring viruses back on your clothes that would make your rats suck or even kill them if it is Sendai. Just letting you know.

Offline Kitsch Slapped

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 07:03:51 PM »
Strange that it says it "contains wood dust" and yet, it also states that it is made of "Trimmings and Remnants from Hygienic Paper Products" and features "No chemicals or by-products" so if this wood dust isnt a by product of something, then Im not understanding how it gets in there if it contains only paper bedding. :icon_scratch: Carefresh and all living things brand paper bedding are made of the same stuff but dont come with a warning label about wood dust. You might call/email Kaytee to get clarification on it if you're concerned.
I dont have experience myself with this particular bedding so I cant comment directly on the use of it.
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Offline Michael C

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 10:50:02 AM »
Carefresh and all living things brand paper bedding are made of the same stuff but dont come with a warning label about wood dust. You might call/email Kaytee to get clarification on it if you're concerned.

I know that the state of California thinks that just about everything causes cancer and they require warning labels on practically everything. If I ran a company that sold pet bedding, I might be inclined to create separate packaging for products sold in California just so I wouldn't have to have the warning labels on everything nationwide.

Are their any Californian Goosemoosers who could confirm whether products like Carefresh or ALT paper bedding have a "wood dust" warning on them?

I've been back-and-forthing with a Kaytee rep about this and I'll post what I can when I'm satisfied with the answers. So far all I've gotten was a claim that the state of California considers anything made of paper to be a wood dust hazard. I wasn't able to find a definition of "wood dust" in California law so now I'm gonna have to read the report that California's OEHHA relied on when deciding to add wood dust to their list of known carcinogens. I am a big dubious of the "paper=wood dust" claim. We'll see. I'll let you know.

Offline ILoveMyRatties

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2016, 11:00:59 AM »
What about the 10lb crinkle paper you bought from an office store? Just curious if it didn't work out for you.

Offline Suebee

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2016, 12:00:09 PM »
What about the 10lb crinkle paper you bought from an office store? Just curious if it didn't work out for you.

I used to use a similar product that was made for small pets (anyone remember what it was called?). It would get pee-soaked and stink and stick to everything. :P I didn't use it for the whole cage, just for nesting, but of course the rats usually don't care what your intentions are... ;)

I haven't had a chance to check out the original product asked about (I haven't had rats for almost five years, but am pondering getting some again now that my daughter is older), but I'm still miffed at Kaytee for their cruddy food and the 'tude they gave me about the safety of pine and cedar back in the day, so I'm inclined not to give them my business. But that's me.  :thumbsup2:

Offline Michael C

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 12:26:54 PM »
What about the 10lb crinkle paper you bought from an office store? Just curious if it didn't work out for you.

Yeah, I'm quite satisfied with the crinkle paper but it doesn't come in camo colors! I mean, c'mon! Brown and green!

I used to use a similar product that was made for small pets (anyone remember what it was called?). It would get pee-soaked and stink and stick to everything.

Eco Bedding is available from a number of online pet supply sources but I just recently bought the unbranded crinkle kraft paper sold by Staples as a package filler. I haven't had much of a problem with sogginess for a couple reasons. 1) I'm only using it on the bottom level of a DCN and the boys generally spend a little more time on the higher levels that are covered with fleece mats and 2) I've got three litter trays in the cage and, because pee rocks are awesome, they're really good about using them.

If what the Kaytee rep told me about California law is true, Eco Bedding crinkle paper bedding packaging would also be required to have a "wood dust" warning label on it.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:29:40 PM by Michael C »

Offline Suebee

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 01:25:25 PM »
Eco Bedding! That's the stuff. LOL! Thanks!

It's been at least a decade since I used it... throw in some mom brain, and poof, name go bye-bye.  :yelcutelaugh:

Offline BigBen

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 04:54:20 PM »
Paper can be made from wood dust, but that doesn't mean it is wood dust.  My concern, however, would be that volatiles from the dust might survive the paper-making process.   That may be a false worry, though; I just don't know.

Michael, if CareFresh is still making their Crinkles, they used to come in camo colors, and maybe still do.  I didn't notice any more dust with them than I do with Eco-bedding.
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Offline Michael C

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 05:51:32 PM »
I understand so little about the science of it but paper is made from cellulose fibers, not just ground up wood. The cellulose fibers have actually been separated from the rest of what wood is. The cellulose is separated and removed and the rest becomes waste. Being that when wood is processed into paper it loses it's woody smell, I would venture to assume that the phenols are stripped from the cellulose fibers and are a part of the waste product.

So... because of all that, I might guess that paper is safe for rats even though it may be made from softwoods like cedar and pine.

When I think of the term "wood dust", I imagine small particles of wood resulting from wood cutting/sawing. I don't think of cellulose particles that have been chemically treated/separated from wood. Personally, I wouldn't think that loose cellulose fibers are the same thing as wood particles.

I've got more reading to do.

Offline Been to the Mountaintop

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2016, 06:37:03 AM »
Michael's has smaller bags of paper crinkles in all kinds of colors for reasonable prices--like 3 or 4 bucks each. Not as cheap as your 10 pound bag, but maybe ok for a camo photo shoot. :-)
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Offline Vonda Z

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Re: How bad is Kaytee's Clean & Cozy?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2016, 08:36:56 AM »
This has come up before in this thread: http://www.goosemoose.com/rfc/index.php?topic=4100652.msg5056884#msg5056884

Honestly, it is like others have said - California is super insane when it comes to some of their regulations. I personally wouldn't base my decision on that warning as you would likely also see it on other beddings like Aspen and in the post linked above, it was paper pelleted litter when they were still 100% paper.

I would instead look at the ingredients and shy away from anything with questionable ingredients and also look at whether it has a high dust factor. I personally avoid litters that are artificially colored - but that is just me. I would rather use plain colored paper as a litter. Of course, there is no evidence I know of that says dyed paper litter is a risk, it is just my own preference there.