Personal stories about breeding

[mirale13]

In my naive days (several months ago) when i thought all petsores were created equal and had their animals best interest at heart, i bought 3 rats from PetCo all in the "female cage" and ended up with 2 prego females and a male.  Within two weeks one had a presumed inner ear infection with a cocked head and the others were sniffling..

Well B.R. had 6 beautiful babies and S.C. had 8 despite our ignorance.  1 Litter is 7 weeks old the other 5.  They are successfully weaned and separated and all are healthy and happy..well this thread breaks my heart. Im sure my "Ratty Pile" has horrible genetics given their origin and there is an already established myco presence given the whole "Pile" sniffles..i shudder to read others experience and think mine might begin to suffer soon

[SmSweetAngelGirl]

I wouldnt breed my rats, i would just rescue one or two...

[sanntaich]

Firstly, I want to thank all of you for posting your stories up here.  While sad and sometimes horrible, they are educational and hopefully will do some good for others to hear.

I really hope this doesn't qualify as off-topic, since it isn't technically a story in which I breed a litter, but here goes anyways.

I have 2 female rats, Bean and Gus, both from a local petstore.  Gus is outwardly, very healthy; never a sneeze, extremely laid back and cuddly, eats well, etc.  Bean has and always will be a runt.  She's about half the size of gus and her body would barely stretch from the palm of your hand to the tips of your fingers.  I would have loved to breed my rats, but after much deliberation I decided not to.  One obvious reason was that I had no idea of Gus' background, and I would feel so badly if the litter had serious health problems.  Also, I didn't know the proposed father of the litter as well as I would have liked.  Right there it sounded like something out of the "Do You Really Want To Breed?" pamphlet I'd read earlier.   I had solid homes for at least 14 little rats, and sometimes told myself "well, I know about the hidden dangers, tumors, myco that can show up in petstore rats, but Gus is fine, and I know the people who own her brother and he's just fine too."  But logic won out and I simply couldn't take the risk.  

I still would really like to breed rats when I get older, out-of-school-with-a-steady-job older.  But right now, I think I'm just too inexperienced.  And what's more, the world doesn't really need 8-14 more rats (especially/mainly ones with questionable backgrounds) when there are already ones out there without homes.  So in the meantime I will continue to read as much as I can about rats, especially their genetic traits.  I may plan, or speculate, hope or wish, but for the time being I will not be breeding any rats.  

Now here is where this post may be a little off-topic.  It seems to me that this post is mainly just what you shouldn't do, and I don't always feel it completely helpful when only the negative side of an arguement is presented (ie "don't do this" but never saying what to do instead?  if that makes any sense).  I also think there would be benefits to saying what one would have to do to become a successful, ethical rat breeder.  I imagine there would be many requirements that most people would not be able to fill.  And, on the other hand, this might help me with knowing what exactly I might be getting myself into 10 years down the road  

Thank you all for reading, and the best of luck.

[catcov]

I bought a fawn hooded rat two years ago. I had always wanted a fawn hooded rat, so I overlooked the fact that she was older than my last female rat purchase. We didn't figure out that she was pregnant until she built the nest that night --- there were no signs at all. The next morning there were 6 kittens. We were able to keep 4 and 2 were given to a local pet store on the condition that they be sold as pets and as a pair (the pet store had helped locals find homes for rodents in the past). I have no idea who they went home with, but both were beautiful and seem to have found an owner quickly.

The babies have been tame and sweet. Of the four that we kept, 3 made it to their second birthday, and two are still with us. However, both of the females have developed tumors. Joanna, who is still with us as well, obviously had her growth stunted by having a litter too young... she is much smaller than her grown children and requires nutritional supplements.

We neutered the two males so that we could keep all of the rats together without any more litters. I do not plan to breed rats intentionally any time soon... right now there are eight rats at our local humane society, and a bunch of them are siblings that someone dumped there, probably from a poorly planned litter.  

However, if ten years from now I am still living in the Southeast, I would like to try starting a rattery of my own with rats from other parts of the country, where the rat fancy is more established. I want to breed for health and longevity, and plan matings that will improve the local rat population. Feeder tank rats were the only kind available in my area when I started looking, and it has been rare for one of my pets to live more than 2 years. Two rats that I bought even died of a genetic heart defect when they were only a month old --- the pet store that was breeding them obviously didn't care about the health of the rats it was selling. (That pet store, by the way, is now under new management - and now it features pet rats from a responsible local breeder of dumbos!   )

[sarahspins]

That pet store, by the way, is now under new management - and now it features pet rats from a responsible local breeder of dumbos!

Responsible breeders don't place rats via petstores... most likely they are being supplied by a breeder who either bred without thinking if there would be enough interest in their rats and feels their is little other choice (in which case they shouldn't be breeding in the first place), or they just see the dollar signs coming in from the store and don't care... and again, they probably shouldn't be breeding if that is their motivation.

"Responsible" breeders provide a forever home for every rat they breed which they are unable to place in a good home.  This means both keeping extra rats from litters AND taking back rats from those who can no longer care for them.

[Baby's Mom]

I know this is a thread about rat breeding stories, but I have a hamster breeding story I hope might be of some benefit.  Some friends of ours had 2 hamsters, a male and a female.  I'm not sure if they knew at the time the gender difference, but they kept them together.  Of course, if anyone here is familiar with hamsters, Syrian hamsters are solitary, so it's pure luck these guys didn't kill each other.  Anyway, litter number one came and was immediately cannibalized by the male.  The owners decided that they really didn't want 2 cages to clean, so they had contemplated taking the female back to the petstore.  I knew that she had probably been impregnated again, so I offered to take her as I didn't think it was fair to have to give birth in a petstore.  So finally she gave birth to what I believe were 10 pups.  At first, she appeared to be a good mom.  But then, one by one, she proceded to eat her litter.  At 11 days of age and 3 pups left, I became very fearful for there welfare, and I looked up all info I could on handraising hamster pups.  Although all 3 got dehydrated quickly, with my vigilant care, 2 of them bounced back and were soon off my worry list.  The runt, however, didn't fair so well.  She was very weak and eventually passed away 2 days after seperation from their mom in my hand while I was trying to feed her.  The other 2 pups did very well for the next 2 days.  Then I woke up to find one of them had passed away since the last feeding.  And then hours later, the other one was also dead.  I don't know if they would have survived if left with their mom, or if they too, would have been eaten, but I do know that any notion of wanting to breed out of an impulsive desire to see cute little babies left me quite quickly.  Now that I have ventured somewhat out of the hamster world and into the rat world, I know that I will not breed rats, at least without doing A LOT of research.  I don't know if I will breed rats, but at this point after what I went through with the hamster family I have absolutely NO plans to put any rat (or myself, again) through the trauma.

[rodent_luver]

I have never bred rats befor, considering I have only had 2 in my life lol. and they are brothers with big testicals so I know they are not females.  .. I would never breed my rat boys because I wouldent want their unknown genetics to get passes on no matter how friendly and well tempered they are. My boys were taken away from their mother MUCH to early at 4 weeks old and they were housed with there sisters and other brother in PINE bedding and fed hamster mix food in a pet store where they were surrendered. I am super glad I saved my boys from that hell hole. I feel so sorry for the two baby ratties that are still there. at least they have each other. I hate the pet stores here. ughh  

[Tizzrah]

I do not have any stories because I have never, and WILL never breed.  Ever.  I have never had any 'accidental' litters, because my cages are secure and I am responsible enough to make SURE they are secure.  I have never taken in a pregnant female, because I do not have the money, time, or conscience to be able to deal with such a task.  

The bottom line is, there are too many rats in the world.  Too many without homes, too many without the love and care they need to survive.  There is no reason to breed, AT ALL, unless you know what you are doing, have mentored with a long-time, RESPONSIBLE breeder, have the funds to spend if your females need emergency vet care, have rats with pedigrees, AT LEAST four generations back, and have the space and time to devote to EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of the babies in case you cannot find homes for them.

And if you cannot find homes for them?  DO NOT BREED AGAIN.  

*Climbs down off soapbox.*

That is my opinion.  

[willow15133]

Hello all. I don't have any breeding stories, but I've read all the stories posted here about breeding and I don't think I will EVER be breeding any of my rats. I do have a suggestion for anyone who wants the same experience of having baby rats and doesn't want to actually breed their rats. I suggest you either start a rescue or foster some rats. If you have the time and money. This would be a much safer alternative. That's all.

Alison

[kuronezumisama]

I never intended on breeding my rats, but accidents apparently happen when you trust your rats care to others while you're on vacation.

Two years ago one of my female rats had suprised me with two little babies. As far as I had known, she'd had no contact with my male rats, and two was a bit of an odd number I thought. Turns out while I was on a trip to see my boyfriend, my father had left both cage doors open and found the females sleeping with the males, but he didn't tell me until later. In short, two was indeed an odd number, as she still had some babies left inside and a c-section was required to remove them. Still, only the original two survived, and I kept them.

Now, due to old age or illness, I only had those two babies left (both males.) They were supposed to be my last rats as well until I'm out on my own. However, a female rat literally crawled into our lives. We found a fancy rat living on our balcony. She had been coming inside to steal our dog's food though and ripped up our newspapers for bedding. She was terrified of us at first but has become a very sweet and friendly rat. But again..I'm starting to think someone let the males a bit too close to the female. Even though they're in seperate rooms, I'm not always home and who knows what my parents or brothers let them do when I'm gone. I noticed she's starting to look like she's swallowed a tennis ball. Her belly is huge! If she is pregnant instead of some other problem, I'm not sure I'm able to handle this.  I don't know how old she is, the males have had problems with myco before, and I may not have enough funds in the bank to pay for any emergency vet visit should something go wrong during birth. It's rather frustrating.

[fishyforest]

Not about rats, but close enough.

I once brought home an extremely pregnant mouse.  I know it's wrong to buy from pet stores like those - after that time, I've never gone in there again.  I'm way too soft-hearted, and she seemed to be begging me to take her home.  Besides her giant stomach, she was painfully thin.  She ended up with 11 babies, all of which I intended to keep from the beginning.

Something was wrong with one of the girls from the day she was born - the vet couldn't diagnose it but I believe now it was encepholaphy (sp?).  Charlotte had almost no coordination, and as soon as the other babies started crawling around she was completely unable to nurse from her mom.  I started feeding her myself.  Eventually, Charlotte became anxious and upset when I had to put her back in with her mom and siblings.  She never thrived like her siblings.  One day she died.

I was devastated.  She'd practically been my own child.  The other babies from the litter are wonderful, but nothing could ever make up for Charlotte.

[Rob Scarlett]

Well I bought my hairless rat, Zoopa, from a craptastic pet store thinking I was saving her. Little did I know she had spent some "quality time" with one of the males there, most likely her brother.
After picking up another female to give them both a friend I let them play.
Less than a month later Zoopa was getting awfully chubby and nipped at me once. She didn't seem to be getting the kinda big mentioned by other people when a rat was pregos so I didn't think anything of it.
When I came home yesterday from a Thanksgiving dinner I had a surprise. A litter of five pups squeeking away in this huge nest Zoopa built during the day.
I'll let you know how this turns out. I'm off to the store to buy things to make more and bigger cages.

Well Zoopa had 5 babies. All seemed to be doing well the first few days but on the third day one looked a little less cared for. Later in the day it seemed to be doing better though it still seemed smaller than the others.
Today I found its remains. The other four pups, two males and two females, are doing well so far but they are still very young.

Today another pup was missing. I can only assume it was eaten as I found nothing of it. One of the babies had been moves aside but I thought Zoopa was rearranging the little ones as she moved them to another nest and cage to be with her sisters again. I now have three babies left, one male and two females. Sadly this is the number and sexes I had planned to keep. I hope nothing further happens to the babies as this is really beginning to break my heart.

[devaney]

I had been seriously considering breeding rats for quite some time when a friend who worked a petstore directed me to one of her former breeders who was getting out of the business. I met him and he literally just handed me 25 rats and his 16-cage breeder system set up. I thought, how hard could it be?! I had had rats growing up as a kid and it had been no problem. I thought it strange when the man never called me back or returned my calls to pick up his payment. Wow 25 rats for free! Great huh? 2 days later, one of the rats died. I was upset but figured it was old. And then another died. And another. Ok lots of old rats? And then babies started to die. I didn't take long to put things together. All the rats looked the same. All the rats WERE the same. They were HORRIBLY inbred. Thin hair, stillborns, parasites, deformities. Half of them ended up dying within the first month. The other half cost me so much money trying to keep alive. In the beginning I didn't understand how the breeder systems were used. I still have a few of the original 25 left. They are very sweet but they can never breed again. They are healthy but their babies don't live past the 2 month mark. Not a one. I have a lot of rats now, about 60 or so, and I love all of them very dearly. Each one is close to me. I still breed but I make sure I have an extra 5 cages available when I do. I make sure they will have toys and food and a good life or I can find homes for them that will provide these things for them. In the beginning I didn't know what I was doing which is partly my fault but it makes me so angry of what people do to rats. They think of them as things, and pay no attention to the rats' pain or well-being. Some of those rats I really got close to. Pepper and Tina were my favorites. Tina died while being in labor for most of the day. I didn't make it to the vet in time. All her babies died too. Pepper was malnourished, mite infested, dehydrated, everything. I spent every single day for 3 months trying to nurse her and checking on her and hand feeding her and bathing her  and giving her antibiotics and trying to keep the mites off of her for just 1 minute so she could be relax. She held on though for so long. She'd barely move at all, like it hurt too much. I'd put her in my hand and she would just look at you, so sad and so tired. One morning I looked in on her and she had been alseep. She opened her eyes half way and looked at me. I stroked her frail little body. The fur mites had come back again and I tried to brush them off of her. She closed her eyes again and died. If that man who had sold me the rats wouldv'e been there I would have smacked him.

I love rats   not the money they make.

[Ray]

You know, I have to state my two cents here, because I understand the logic that breeding should be left to professional breeders to insure healthy rats, etc., but I have to add that I'll bet a large percentage of rat lovers first met rats in a pet store.  If I hadn't let my son buy his first pet store rat 15 years ago, I would still think they are disgusting creatures.  However, even though it only lived two years,  I learned what wonderful pets they are.  Three pet store rats later, he found the RFC and became aware that there are rat breeders.  We got our first "pedigree" rats just last year and we actually had two litters of babies.  We were thrilled to experience the pregnancies, births, and development of 25 wonderful ratties.  We found good homes for all through hard work.  We did have great cost because we changed litter daily, bought new cages to house males/females, gave bags of food to each new owner (along with our recipes), a cage to a new rat lover, etc.  Will our babies be healthy and viable?  Only time will tell (although I will assert that the same is true for the rats that have been produced by "reputable breeders."  
I do agree that we should all strive to do what's best for rats, but who are we to judge whether someone else was right or wrong in their decision to have a litter?  You can't just give a generic "no" to everyone, otherwise it sounds like an exclusive "club" to me, and I'm not one for those.  Perhaps I took $$ away from breeders in the area by having my 2 litters, but I introduced hundreds of local children to rats,  recruited many new rat lovers, and I think that's a good thing.  So, my personal story is a positive one.  If you are willing to research, spend lots of TIME and MONEY to find appropriate homes, you can have a positive experience and perhaps even promote rats ine the whole process.  
That's what I think Rats Rule should be about!
Kathy  (Ray's mom)

[Scamp]

I don't think anyone should breed an animal unless they have a full genetic background of that animal available. I've got a story that can illustrate the tragedy that can come out of breedings with no genetic history, though it involves mice rather than rats.

A friend brought me a mouse that she had "rescued" from a feeder tank at PetCo. Said mouse turned out to be pregnant. She produced 12 beautiful babies. She was a wonderful mama, and all of the babies thrived and lived into adulthood. I found homes for some, kept some, and thought that all was well.

Fast forward a month or so.

One night, a friend who had adopted two of the little boy mice called me in tears because one of them had suddenly died without any signs of ill health.  A week later, her other mouse died while running on its wheel. It was alive one second, dead the next. A few days later, one of the mice that I had kept from the litter also died without any sign of illness. The baby mice kept dying. The mother mouse died at age 8 months.

It has been slightly more than one year since the litter was born. Of the original 12 babies and their mother, all but five died before reaching a year of age-- well below the expected lifespan of a pet mouse. One of the remaining babies has a tumor and will probably not be with us much longer. There is something terribly wrong with their genes-- something that we could not tell by looking at them, and did not become evident until the long chain of deaths began. Anyone who breeds a litter of animals without knowing their genetic history runs the risk of something like this happening.

I didn't even breed the mouse, but I still feel horrible every time that somebody calls to tell me that one of my babies has died and I hear the sorrow in their voice when they say things like, "I thought they lived one and a half or two years. I wasn't ready for this yet..." I feel bad for having talked these wonderful people into adopting animals only to have their lives be so much shorter than what they bargained for.

[LoriZubie]

Thank you to everyone who posted here!  I believe this post was started to speak directly to me!  

I have 3 rats that I just love and I was talking with the kids and they asked if Baby could have babies of her own because she is soooo beautiful.  I told them I would think about it and do some research on the subject.

I don't know what I was thinking!?!  It would be fun?  It would be a good experience for the kids?  The babies would be cute?

I will leave breeding up to the professionals!

Thank you for setting me straight!

[kmw]

Will our babies be healthy and viable?  Only time will tell (although I will assert that the same is true for the rats that have been produced by "reputable breeders."  
I do agree that we should all strive to do what's best for rats, but who are we to judge whether someone else was right or wrong in their decision to have a litter?  You can't just give a generic "no" to everyone, otherwise it sounds like an exclusive "club" to me, and I'm not one for those.  Perhaps I took $$ away from breeders in the area by having my 2 litters, but I introduced hundreds of local children to rats,  recruited many new rat lovers, and I think that's a good thing.  So, my personal story is a positive one.  If you are willing to research, spend lots of TIME and MONEY to find appropriate homes, you can have a positive experience and perhaps even promote rats ine the whole process.  
That's what I think Rats Rule should be about!
Kathy  (Ray's mom)

I agree and disagree with this last paragraph.  This thread was not intended to prevent everybody on the planet from breeding.  It WAS intended to give people information about RESPONSIBLE breeding, and the reality of what breeding is and the consequences of breeding.  I hold firm to my stance that it is never a good idea to breed two petstore animals of unknown backgrounds and "hope for the best."  Whether it be dogs, cats, gerbils, rats or birds.  

Accidents happen.  Inexperienced small animal owners sometimes get sold two "females" who turn out to be male and female.  People do the best they can in the situations they find themselves in.  If you want your child to experience the "miracle of life", find a litter of animals to foster, or work with a breeder to further the fancy, rather than adding more "might be great pets".  

[KeokiGrrl]

Not to depress folks, but even well documented lines can have "glitches" from time to time and produce hitherto unknown genetic problems.  I've seen it happen twice - once with a line not bred by me that suddenly out of the blue ended up producing a litter that all had serious heart problems.  I had adopted from this line, with high hopes, but my Rigel developed serious heart issues shortly after coming home.  We did our best to manage his condition but had to put him down just a few weeks after his first birthday.  He was, luckily, never bred.  The other bad juju litter, sadly, happened here.  I had two brothers from extremely well tracked, carefully bred lines end up with bladder cancer at a little over 1.5 years of age.  One of the reasons this particular line has been so popular is for its overall good health, famously great temperment and general lack of tumors and other congenital issues.  Half-siblings and close cousins to this litter have had no history of problems - it seems like there was just a fluke and poor Vicar and Zeek ended up getting an unpredictably bad toss of the genetic dice.  It truly broke my heart - The Vicar was Keoki's heir and succsessor.  As much as it pains me not to have any "grandkids" from the Vicar or Zeek, I am altogether glad they were not bred because it would be worse to have passed the cancer prone genetics on to a new generation.  That is one reason I personally tend to breed my males and females later in their fertile months - gives me more time to track health and personality.  A rat generally is not going to display serious health or behavioral issues when it's 4 months of age, but once they get closer to a year, things can begin popping up, like mammary tumors, weak lungs, cancer, etc.  

And why, oh why, does it seem that planned, carefully thought out breedings can take such work to actually pull off when every sad inbred tumor ridden feeder bin female of breeding age seems to get pregnant at the mere sight of a male (usually a relative.)  What a cruel joke of nature.  I'm having trouble getting my pedigreed girls pregnant of late (yes, I did ELISA test and no, nothing funky.)  Yet I took a poor sad girl with a big ol' mammary tumor in to my quarantine space who had a litter of 7 three days after tumor surgery, while still caring for another 4 week old.  There were more in the 4 week old's litter, but apparently the mother could get out of her cage at her former home and when the people gathered her up to drop off at the charity office, this was the only one they could find.  Shudder!  Apparently, this last (and it WILL be the last ever) litter makes FIVE @#$%& litters for poor one-year old mama.  Some people need to be whacked with the smart stick.  Female + Male + living together at all times + no neutering = a crapload of babies!  I shudder to think what happened to the first 3 litters.  As my mother would say, some people's kids.  If you want to see more about my little rescue mama, you can visit her at www.worldofrats.com/ROUSMissJane.html  Her offspring will be needing homes in the next month or so.  She was ELISA tested and we are now waiting for interpretation of the results.  She did come through surgery nicely, and both her older and younger kids look good, thank goodness.

Lynn and the Ruckus of Rats
www.worldofrats.com/ROUSIndex.html

[LittlePixie]

It WAS intended to give people information about RESPONSIBLE breeding, and the reality of what breeding is and the consequences of breeding.

Yes so why isn't this a sticky topic any more?

[uk rattie]

I have never considered breeding rats (and probably never will). I have 3 rats (all bought from pet stores) 2 of them were bought from Petsmart and another from a local pet shop. I have to say, I will never buy from pet stores again. The 2 from Petsmart have myco and the one from the local pet shop is smaller than he should be. I urge people NOT to buy from pet shops. Since then, I have been to several rats shows wich the SRC run and have names of breeders - from now on I will only adopt from breeders.

[kmw]

It WAS intended to give people information about RESPONSIBLE breeding, and the reality of what breeding is and the consequences of breeding.

Yes so why isn't this a sticky topic any more?

Because we don't want the whole first page to be sticky topics.  Sometimes sacrifices have to be made.  

[ratlife]

You know, you all have done a great job here, I am in tears and have changed my mind.  I have been wanting to breed for months now.  I know I would be a great breeder.  But I have decided to run a rescue instead.  I am going to take in and try to rehome unexpected litters and unwanted ratties.  I have plenty of time for them, I have great vets in my area and will soon have more room for them.  The feeling I got from saving Fred Wilma and the babies she was carrying at the time I bought her has brought me joy every time I get a kiss and cuddle from Fred and play and kiss those babies, everytime I look at those adorable faces, every day I get closer to Wilma trusting me, I know that bringing them home with me from that horrible place was the right thing to do.  So thank you for these stories.  I personally have chosen to save the ratties that are already out there and not breed...even excellent quality ratties.  Thank you so much.

[rhinecat]

Goober was a nice, friendly, goofy-as-heck little PEW from a feeder rat's litter at Petco. I adopted (not bought) her when she was 5 weeks old, after having handled her since pinkyhood... she was one of the ones that got pregnant when Moody escaped and went over to the females' cage. Now, she's a very disagreeable rat who looks stressed out all the time and likes to bite everything and everyone. As soon as she had babies, she started biting, and hasn't ever stopped...

I feel so bad for her. I can tell she wants to be held and cuddled like she used to be, but she apparently is still guarding her babies, even though they were weaned months ago, and have all gone to new homes.

She's not sick, just permanently "on guard" to defend her babies.. never mind that they're not around.  

[t-rat]

fascinating...
well, i have no interest in breeding rats... maybe chickens one day...  
in addition to everything that i have read here and all over the 'net about good rat breeding, just visiting my breeder's house and seeing all the work and care and time that goes into producing her rats would be enough to convince anyone how hard it is to do it right.    
i leave all to her and people like her.
thanks

[ratlife]

I take in any unwanted rat, even if it is from a petstore.   Pet store rats deserve homes as much as breeder rats.  I don't agree with people breeding their rats so they can have more rats...there are plenty of rats out there, go get them don't add to the problem.  There are so many "accidental" litters out there and it has to stop.  My babies are 3 weeks old and it is very obvious which ones are boys.  Now I don't know if that will change but from what I have seen there is no way to NOT know the difference.  It breaks my heart to see how many accidents there are....60 rats?  How can you possibly give 60 rats the love they need?

http://www.freewebs.com/perfect_pets_rat_rescue/